tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post2176691589107450543..comments2024-03-28T07:50:06.102-04:00Comments on Mike Norman Economics: MMTers, where do you stand? Tax cuts or more spending?mike normanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03296006882513340747noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-55826080195364827322012-12-17T21:28:07.167-05:002012-12-17T21:28:07.167-05:00I don't want to fool around anymore in meeting...<i>I don't want to fool around anymore in meeting our energy, environment, and climate problems. We must have full employment with ecological sustainability; nothing else will do.</i><br /><br />Agree, Joe. This is the sort of framing we should adopt and give it urgency, like neoliberals have given "expansionary fiscal austerity" urgency in order to further their socially and environmentally destructive goals that only benefit a few at the expense of many.Tom Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08454222098667643650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-80901677813037898442012-12-17T20:20:25.130-05:002012-12-17T20:20:25.130-05:00I'm for the full payroll tax cut; but otherwis...I'm for the full payroll tax cut; but otherwise I'm for new spending: State Revenue Sharing at $1,000 per person; a job guarantee; a major infrastructure program including repairing and upgrading educational facilities; new energy foundations programs; imediate new programs to counter climate change. As full employment approached, and demand-pull inflation became a factor; if we still needed more public sector spending to be done then I'd radically increase taxes on the well-off to create more policy space, and even impose pice and wage controls where needed. I don't want to fool around anymore in meeting our energy, environment, and climate problems. We must have full employment with ecological sustainability; nothing else will do.Letsgetitdonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07607539419260450949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-60720302250422094622012-12-13T21:15:43.059-05:002012-12-13T21:15:43.059-05:00Right, it's a question of actual needs and mul...Right, it's a question of actual needs and multipliers. But when timing is crucial a tax cut is quick, and so is a transfer, such as the checks that the Bush admin sent out. <br />Can you imagine what the GOP would say if a Dem admin proposed that?Tom Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08454222098667643650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-36635548368925680872012-12-13T20:56:21.219-05:002012-12-13T20:56:21.219-05:00Tax Cut or Spending - it doesn't matter, depen...Tax Cut or Spending - it doesn't matter, depending where they're directed they're equivalent.<br /><br />Spending on the unemployed is good, why because a tax cut is not going to help them if they're not earning enough to pay tax.<br /><br />Tax cut on the employed is good as it gives all more income.<br /><br />In both cases consumers have more income and we know income creates sales and sales create jobs.<br /><br />It's not that hard to work out the function and your politics determines which one you do where.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-68499848243091568362012-12-13T14:08:20.921-05:002012-12-13T14:08:20.921-05:00xan -- Are you sure that's not 6.2 times every...xan -- Are you sure that's not 6.2 times every second? ;-)John Zelnickerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03280656264903899739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-70970200478365198772012-12-13T11:23:42.855-05:002012-12-13T11:23:42.855-05:00@ xan
Nice.@ xan<br /><br />Nice.Tom Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08454222098667643650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-39972193285377884622012-12-13T04:46:52.927-05:002012-12-13T04:46:52.927-05:00I suppose it all depends on what gov't spendin...I suppose it all depends on what gov't spending is being spent on. Since it's all about the resources. <br /><br />Currently I am not using many scientists myself, and don't see myself using too many in the future, certainly not directly. So I guess the gov't could hire some of them and find useful things to do with them. Thorium is a good place to start, as someone else has already mentioned. Also, I am not personally in need of rockets, rocket fuel, or lunar modules, so sending people to the moon wouldn't harm my personal economy. Maybe they could use some of the engineers and fuel currently being used overseas to kill people.<br /><br />Also bridges in my neighbourhood fall down at an above-national-average rate. Maybe new bridges would be a good thing. There's got to be some extra concrete around, and I know there is steel because they just shut down an iron mine up north because no one is buying it.<br /><br />I have also noticed a lot of things don't get done because, it is claimed, wages are too high. Now I know my pay cheque is not so big, so something else must be making wages too high. Maybe we should not tax labour. Maybe we should try to just tax bad things. Like machines that trade stocks every 6.2 seconds.<br /><br />Those are some of my ideas.xanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09045594213131265682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-4740270155693607152012-12-12T19:35:06.245-05:002012-12-12T19:35:06.245-05:00Demetri opines on MMT, and Lauren Lyster gets her ...Demetri opines on MMT, and Lauren Lyster gets her revenge on Mike!:<br /><br />"Is Modern Monetary Theory a recipe for Statist Capitalism and Central Economic Planning?"<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq0RcnXdqhM<br /><br />yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03233997168975370006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-8120507776331584942012-12-12T15:48:35.834-05:002012-12-12T15:48:35.834-05:00If Obama has any usefulness to the Dems at all, it...If Obama has any usefulness to the Dems at all, it is in finishing off the New Democrats and the Third Way. <br /><br />HRC in 2018 is laughable. She would get zero progressive votes.Tom Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08454222098667643650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-68288423222033044832012-12-12T15:23:23.059-05:002012-12-12T15:23:23.059-05:00The fact that there is going to be some kind of de...The fact that there is going to be some kind of deficit-contracting budget deal in the US is now set in stone. I just hope it doesn't do too much damage. The best that can be hope for is that the nail-biters who think we are nearly "out of money" will chill out after the deal is inked, and get back to business.<br /><br />After that's done, I hope Obama reflects on the fact that has basically just presided over a wrongheaded replay of the 1929-1931 Hoover stage of government response to a sever collapse. But unlike Hoover, he lucked into re-election. Now it's time to gun up the Roosevelt stage.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-51721395585033321572012-12-12T15:14:46.933-05:002012-12-12T15:14:46.933-05:00Perhaps Denninger disagrees with Kelton in that SK...Perhaps Denninger disagrees with Kelton in that SK never mentioned the part about the "money disappearing into the ether..." Matt Frankohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11978352335097260145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-69259299827166144632012-12-12T15:13:03.722-05:002012-12-12T15:13:03.722-05:00This would be the equivalent of a large tax cut fo...<i>This would be the equivalent of a large tax cut for businesses.</i><br /><br />Yes, it makes no sense to tax businesses in productive gains or require them to provide employee benefits as part of the compensation package. <br /><br />Of course, economic rent should be taxed and uniform standards set for safety and working conditions. I also see no reason not to put tariffs on imported products that are produce below the importer's standards.Tom Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08454222098667643650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-28287892956380816722012-12-12T15:12:14.353-05:002012-12-12T15:12:14.353-05:00Neil, I think the Job Guarantee is an excellent ap...Neil, I think the Job Guarantee is an excellent approach to economic stabilization, and can help with a variety of other social ills related to unemployment. But the JG is something over and above other government spending on public investment and employment unrelated to minimum wage public jobs aimed mainly at macroeconomic stabilization. The larger problem, I think, is that even with that kind of demand support and price stabilization scheme, the private sector just cannot do on its own what needs to be done. I'm telling all the young people I speak to that they have a planet to save and a new world to build, and they need to get busy doing it. It's not just going to happen as a result of local lifestyle choices, and the current generation of leaders doesn't seem intellectually or emotionally equipped to handle the job. Frankly, the kids need to grow bigger ba**s than their parents have.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-64721230890713528332012-12-12T15:03:20.542-05:002012-12-12T15:03:20.542-05:00I'm with you Mike. I guess I'm in the Big...I'm with you Mike. I guess I'm in the Big Government camp of MMT. Here's how I put it over at Matt Yglesias's blog, following yet another hyperbolic Yglesias post on yet another Fed policy shift. My comment was written in direct response to a comment by a 35 year old guy who says he has little hope for a more prosperous future:<br /><br /><i>I wouldn't exactly argue that you should have "hope", because who can predict how long our country will continue to be run by the zombie dead. But I would argue that you should firmly believe that a much more prosperous future is possible, and that you are thus being robbed of it by political decision-makers. Growing and progressing and increasing the general prosperity isn't some unpredictable fluke of nature or act of the invisible gods of the invisible hands. It is a choice countries can make, and when they make that choice they move ahead, even if the precise path can't be predicted. This country, and the continent of Europe, have chosen stagnation instead. We are all run by a generation of mercenary, timid and lobotomized leaders who think it is much more important to protect the property claims and rent checks of the existing owners of an economically decadent society, then to act to mobilize the nation's physical and human resources to develop the country.</i><br /> <br /><i>A US that was in a much worse condition than the current one in the 30's mobilized its latent capacity to fight and win a global war, doubling the size of the economy in just under six years, and laying the foundation for two subsequent decades of strong growth and minuscule unemployment, powered by ongoing public investment in the economy with the public expansion of highways, educational opportunities, housing and high technology.</i><br /> <br /><i>And none of this happened because the Fed set a new blah-blah target.</i>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-52692008978183487342012-12-12T14:48:05.187-05:002012-12-12T14:48:05.187-05:00Mosler's universal health care coverage plan i...Mosler's universal health care coverage plan includes:<br /><br />"government should fund at least 90% of health care costs paid for by businesses".<br /><br />This would be the equivalent of a large tax cut for businesses.<br /><br /><br />http://moslereconomics.com/2009/03/02/mosler-health-care-proposal/<br /><br />yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03233997168975370006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-67719285691768022172012-12-12T14:13:36.662-05:002012-12-12T14:13:36.662-05:00More spending is needed, and in my reading of the ...<i>More spending is needed, and in my reading of the evidence it would be more efficient.</i><br /><br />I think we have to see this in the context of what happened at the time of Reaganomics. Public investment was cut back and the consequence has been declining infrastructure in the US. From the economic point of view, catching up on this is most efficient and effective longer term.<br /><br />But it seems to me that short term the quickest way to get $ into the hands of people that would spend it, as well to delever, was a full FICA holiday if not repeal.<br /><br />That should have been done immediately, along with federal aid to states to head of the massive cutbacks that followed. The block grant Warren proposed addressed this.<br /><br />Infrastructure improvement should have been addressed at the outset, too, and to an extent it was. But that takes a while to implement, especially if the implementation is to be efficient and effective.<br /><br />If the president had listened to Warren instead of Larry, and could convince Congress (then Dem controlled), things would be different now. That was not to be, but it is not too late to implement those things now.<br /><br />The point about infrastructure is that this is decades overdue and it really has little to do with the crisis. The crisis is a good "excuse" to do it promptly tho. <br /><br />The ideal time to implement large public works programs is when non-govt is saving and needs the offset to pick up the slack without concern about inflationary pressure. Even with modest economic improvement, employment is stuck in the doldrums, and a lot of that is in construction, which infrastructure would address at least in part.Tom Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08454222098667643650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-49655032716172065942012-12-12T14:05:52.333-05:002012-12-12T14:05:52.333-05:00Mike,
In a balance sheet recession and deleveragin...Mike,<br />In a balance sheet recession and deleveraging environment, putting money in people's pockets will also be used to pay down debt. Getting consumer and business credit flowing again will require credit worthy customers. Tax cut stimulus is the RX for that.<br />I am not against spending, but the politics of "bridges to nowhere" and pork barrel spending is a tougher sell.Chewituphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05912166063718393059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-58636118493161095422012-12-12T13:51:19.774-05:002012-12-12T13:51:19.774-05:00My two cents. More spending is needed, and in my r...My two cents. More spending is needed, and in my reading of the evidence it would be more efficient. Also, that does not preclude maintaining the lower payroll taxes for the middle class, while letting the income tax for the wealthy go up.Matias Vernengohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09521604894748538215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-90403764540262452872012-12-12T13:42:55.712-05:002012-12-12T13:42:55.712-05:00Same strategy on Fox Business and that's why t...Same strategy on Fox Business and that's why their ratings suck. Their ratings are even too low to publish.mike normanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03296006882513340747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-27119533943173369012012-12-12T13:41:57.251-05:002012-12-12T13:41:57.251-05:00Why do they bother putting morons on Capital Accou...<i>Why do they bother putting morons on Capital Account? I guess their audience must be mostly morons.</i><br /><br />Yes, by design. It's how they talk about and present things. Their producer thinks this is a winning strategy. <br /><br />I expect Demitri to be chiming in here any minute now. What are your ratings, Demitri? How many households do you reach?mike normanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03296006882513340747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-85329868818690325572012-12-12T13:23:51.244-05:002012-12-12T13:23:51.244-05:00Here's the Keynesian Friedrich von Hayek's...Here's the Keynesian Friedrich von Hayek's advice:<br /><br />“it is merely common sense that government, as the biggest spender and investor whose activities cannot be guided wholly by profitability, and which for finance is in a great measure independent of the state of the capital market, should so far as practicable distribute its expenditure over time in such a manner that it will step in when private investment flags, and thereby employ resources for public investment at the least cost and with the greatest benefit to society… <br /><br />"To bring about the required changes in the rate of governmental investment promptly enough as a stabilizer, and not, as is usually the case, with such delays that they do more harm than good, would require that the whole investment programme of government be so designed that the speed of its execution could be accelerated or delayed at short notice.”<br /><br />(Law, Legislation and Liberty, Volume 3.)<br />yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03233997168975370006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-8690509181434705902012-12-12T13:18:47.237-05:002012-12-12T13:18:47.237-05:00Eliminate FICA.
Maintain current tax rates.
Spend ...Eliminate FICA.<br />Maintain current tax rates.<br />Spend $ on Infrastructure.<br />Build Thorium Reactors.Red Rockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09763842906429166466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-35638412433432060462012-12-12T13:17:34.147-05:002012-12-12T13:17:34.147-05:00Mosler's plan is absolutely logical. The size ...Mosler's plan is absolutely logical. The size the gove we want should not depend on the point in the business cycle. So spending = constant spending on govt + filling the variable savings desires of the private sector by targeted direct checks and tax decreases.<br /><br />You cannot achieve everything with constant spending and tax decreases if you want to target the weak links of the economy e.g. underwater homeowners.PeterPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02032621777697914182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-53005872325936110882012-12-12T13:16:21.465-05:002012-12-12T13:16:21.465-05:00Denninger and Co. I mean.Denninger and Co. I mean.yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03233997168975370006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-79265721882820242782012-12-12T13:15:20.990-05:002012-12-12T13:15:20.990-05:00They've built this parallel fantasy world in w...They've built this parallel fantasy world in which permanent continuous unrelenting deflation is the best thing possible for an economy, and everything other than that is evil "theft". All apparently based on some pseudohistory scribbled by Rothbard.<br /><br />yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03233997168975370006noreply@blogger.com