tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post3014663901833817084..comments2024-03-28T04:13:36.779-04:00Comments on Mike Norman Economics: Fed modifying IOR policymike normanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03296006882513340747noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-65523757305380097602018-05-25T19:39:45.302-04:002018-05-25T19:39:45.302-04:00eg. A fresh perspective: Entrevista Prem Rawat - R...eg. A fresh perspective: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PcxQh-26-Y" rel="nofollow">Entrevista Prem Rawat - RADAR El Corte Inglés</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-18101629106184952072018-05-25T18:46:03.346-04:002018-05-25T18:46:03.346-04:00The more evolved manipulating the less evolved, se...<i> The more evolved manipulating the less evolved, selfishly. Materially focused and ‘competent’.</i> jsbarch<br /><br />If they are so evolved, they shouldn't need to steal via government privileges and should be ashamed to do so.<br /><br />And bankers aren't more evolved; e.g. Keynes said <i>"A sound banker, alas, is not one who foresees danger and avoids it, <b>but one who, when he is ruined, is ruined in a conventional and orthodox way along with his fellows, so that no one can really blame him."</b></i>Andrew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14296407661618321637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-10284295225674627252018-05-25T18:10:20.608-04:002018-05-25T18:10:20.608-04:00”How do you think labor and capital became distinc...<i>”How do you think labor and capital became distinct classes in the first place?”</i><br /><br />I think there are two different types of ‘intelligences’ at work there. The more evolved manipulating the less evolved, selfishly. Materially focused and ‘competent’.<br /><br />I think however the word intelligence should apply to a mind that is focused towards the self; is aware of the heart. The first signs of that are ‘conscience, kindness, premonition, intuition, reminiscence, unity’ – new wine in old bottles. This begins to leaven and reorient mind, and raise the individual and by aggregate, collective consciousness; and grows into an awareness of the secret every human being holds. Intelligence needs the light of love to become itself. Peace is the only thing we haven’t tried yet. There is the societal human being; then there is the real one. The self sweeps out the old to grow closer to the real. It sweeps civilisations before it; in cycles, aspect and attribute.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-30703106093581427352018-05-25T14:09:56.277-04:002018-05-25T14:09:56.277-04:00And the idea is not to "tax the rich" bu...And the idea is not to "tax the rich" but that they should have to pay to use the inherently risk-free debt of the monetary sovereign, including for account balances at the Central Bank, aka "reserves" in the case of banks.Andrew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14296407661618321637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-58395360790867414842018-05-25T14:04:11.741-04:002018-05-25T14:04:11.741-04:00Also, anyone who hoards money at a zero rate of in...<i>Also, anyone who hoards money at a zero rate of interest actually pays a tax equal to the rate of inflation. </i> Ralph Musgrave<br /><br />Price inflation is not the proper means to penalize fiat hoarding since it penalizes the poor too.<br /><br />Instead the proper method is to apply negative interest to individual citizens account balances above, say, $250,000 and to all non-individual citizen account balances starting at $0*.<br /><br />*Since, as Tom hints at, multiple accounts could be used to circumvent negative interest. Hence, negative-interest-free accounts should be limited to one per citizen.Andrew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14296407661618321637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-41202272612798659332018-05-25T13:20:53.173-04:002018-05-25T13:20:53.173-04:00In the final analysis it comes down to the level o...<i>In the final analysis it comes down to the level of collective consciousness and that cannot be legislated. </i> Tom Hickey<br /><br />So it's unhelpful that the MMT crowd is almost* clueless themselves wrt to the ethics of fiat and credit creation. <br /><br />*Bill Mitchell among the least clueless, to his credit, while Bill Black calls the banks "our banks" and Yves Smith calls equal protection under the law wrt accounts for all citizens at the Central Bank "balmy."Andrew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14296407661618321637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-60035941279081430142018-05-25T12:07:51.285-04:002018-05-25T12:07:51.285-04:00I should specify that class is an analytic concept...I should specify that class is an analytic concept in social science. There are different approaches to it.<br /><br /><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_analysis" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia/Class analysis</a><br /><br />I prefer to look at the phenomenon systemically and view class in terms of networks and networking. Think secret handshakes, for examples, as well as shibboleths. There are signals of inclusion and signals of exclusion.<br /><br />In the end, one of the big determinants of inclusion is wealth (ownership), since being in the upper class requires displaying a degree of lifestyle that those of inferior classes cannot access for lack of affordability. But there are others, such as birth (old money), education ("Oxbridge"), etc. that establish the basis for some networks. This keeps nouveau riche off the social register, and so they don't get invites to upper class functions where networking happens just being being seen there.Tom Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08454222098667643650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-39897902746224861392018-05-25T11:53:01.458-04:002018-05-25T11:53:01.458-04:00@ AA
The upper class are the government, and thos...@ AA<br /><br />The upper class are the government, and those not upper class that manage to get into government as cronies or minions, are a subset of the upper class. They operate on class interest, not ethics or morality. Today, what is legal is moral and the upper class makes the laws and administers them.<br /><br />There is no such thing as government or society other than as sets of sets and as systems constituted of subsystems, elements, and their relations. The arrangement of relationships distinguishes them from sets.<br /><br />Always and everywhere, governments have been constituted of members of the ruling class along with their cronies and minions.<br /><br />This is the structure that needs to be broken before an actual democracy can become operational.<br /><br />Moreover, there is no inherent reason that an actual democracy would be ethical either.<br /><br />In the final analysis it comes down to the level of collective consciousness and that cannot be legislated.Tom Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08454222098667643650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-82992298819129114752018-05-25T10:08:54.982-04:002018-05-25T10:08:54.982-04:00My answer is “yes – and there’s nothing wrong with...<i>My answer is “yes – and there’s nothing wrong with that”.</i> Ralph Musgrave<br /><br />Beyond initial capital formation and legitimate liquidity needs, money beyond one's consumption needs should be invested (including charity), not hoarded. See Matthew 25:14-30 (The Parable of the Talents) for confirmation of what the Lord thinks of money hoarding.Andrew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14296407661618321637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-30984868447609979682018-05-25T10:01:51.123-04:002018-05-25T10:01:51.123-04:00If we are taking along ethical lines, the first th...<i>If we are taking along ethical lines, the first thing that has to go is the class structure. </i> Tom Hickey<br /><br />How do you think labor and capital became distinct classes in the first place?<br /><br />Surely government privileges for private credit creation played a major role. <br /><br />And surely, the proper abolition* of those privileges could result in a great decrease in relative wealth disparity.<br /><br />*E.g. The proper abolition of government-provided deposit insurance should require a huge and equal fiat distribution to all citizens to provide the necessary reserves needed for the transfer of at least some currently insured deposits with the banks to inherently risk-free accounts at the Central Bank itself.Andrew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14296407661618321637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-84725046389131013022018-05-25T06:57:42.532-04:002018-05-25T06:57:42.532-04:00Andrew,
You say “So the rich can escape the $250,...Andrew,<br /><br />You say “So the rich can escape the $250,000 insured deposit limit FOR FREE?” My answer is “yes – and there’s nothing wrong with that”.<br /><br />Reason is that money placed with a central bank (assuming we’re talking about responsible countries) is inherently totally safe (or as near totally safe as is possible in this world).<br /><br />That’s in contrast to insured deposits with commercial banks, where the whole process of deposit insurance is very questionable. E.g. James Tobin had doubts about it. <br />“If the rich want to hoard risk-free they should have to pay for it.” Normal procedure surely is to charge for something only where there is a cost, and to relate charges fairly closely to costs. E.g. the rich and poor pay the same price (at a given shop) for bread, beer, etc etc. <br /><br />Also, anyone who hoards money at a zero rate of interest actually pays a tax equal to the rate of inflation. So there are arguments both ways on your “tax the rich” idea.<br />Ralph Musgravehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09443857766263185665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-59439234251754856192018-05-25T06:21:20.177-04:002018-05-25T06:21:20.177-04:00“the firs thing that has to go is the class struct...“the firs thing that has to go is the class structure. “<br /><br />I vote for elimination of the moron class...Matt Frankohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11978352335097260145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-72105070278656586432018-05-24T20:18:34.685-04:002018-05-24T20:18:34.685-04:00If we are taking along ethical lines, the firs thi...If we are taking along ethical lines, the firs thing that has to go is the class structure. <br /><br />Everyone in the West is agree that the caste system is a huge problem for India, but they can't stand back and see the same for the bourgeoise liberal West. Tom Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08454222098667643650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-68807572386894750502018-05-24T19:47:52.481-04:002018-05-24T19:47:52.481-04:00It is not going to happen anytime soon. Tom Hicke...<i>It is not going to happen anytime soon. </i> Tom Hickey<br /><br />Nor should it, being ethically indifferent at best.<br /><br />OTOH, a responsible, ethically based solution should be irresistible since who will dare oppose it? At least publicly?<br /><br />So the MMT crowd should start thinking along ethical lines instead of how to perpetuate the current unethical system.<br /><br />We're going to have a just system eventually anyway or do you think Jesus Christ will nod and wink at bankers when He returns? Or have you concluded that matters of justice may be safely ignored?Andrew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14296407661618321637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-6592308057433079552018-05-24T19:36:05.083-04:002018-05-24T19:36:05.083-04:00Complain to Warren Mosler? You're the one who ...<i>Complain to Warren Mosler? You're the one who said "I believe so, too."</i> <br /><br />I said to Ralph that I believed that his summary of WM's proposal was correct. <br /><br />I did not say I agreed with it. But I do. <br /><br />Irrelevant though. It is not going to happen anytime soon.Tom Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08454222098667643650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-86984376475793335362018-05-24T19:34:02.662-04:002018-05-24T19:34:02.662-04:00It includes deposit accounts and often short term ...<i>It includes deposit accounts and often short term treasuries.</i> Tom Hickey<br /><br />Being inherently risk-free, account balances at the central bank and other debt of a monetary sovereign should yield AT MOST 0% to avoid welfare proportional to account balance, i.e. welfare for the rich.<br /><br />Complain to Warren Mosler? You're the one who said <i>"I believe so, too."</i><br /><br />Mosler is a banker or at least an ex-banker, so who should expect him to know ethics from a hole in the ground?Andrew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14296407661618321637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-6277310621597019842018-05-24T19:15:26.042-04:002018-05-24T19:15:26.042-04:00But still positive, eh Tom? Still welfare for the ...<i>But still positive, eh Tom? Still welfare for the rich?<br /></i> <br /><br />That's Warren's proposal. Complain to him about it.Tom Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08454222098667643650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-81827229175589209462018-05-24T19:14:07.396-04:002018-05-24T19:14:07.396-04:00in banking finance, "cash" means more th...in banking finance, "cash" means more than currency in circulation. It includes deposit accounts and often short term treasuries.<br /><br />When it is said that Apple has a billion dollars in cash it doesn't mean bills in a vault or safe deposit box.Tom Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08454222098667643650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-18358392648214117842018-05-24T17:28:31.629-04:002018-05-24T17:28:31.629-04:00No, since cash can be stolen, aa
Not that physica...<i>No, since cash can be stolen,</i> aa<br /><br />Not that physical fiat itself should be allowed as a means to escape negative interest for large holders of fiat.Andrew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14296407661618321637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-33637393192301547192018-05-24T17:16:31.339-04:002018-05-24T17:16:31.339-04:00AA, the rich own shares of firms...AA, the rich own shares of firms...Matt Frankohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11978352335097260145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-13163473160951712532018-05-24T17:05:46.338-04:002018-05-24T17:05:46.338-04:00With ZIRP, a 30 bill would be issued at very close...<i>With ZIRP, a 30 bill would be issued at very close to 0%,</i> Tom Hickey<br /><br />But still positive, eh Tom? Still welfare for the rich?Andrew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14296407661618321637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-70889972956092748502018-05-24T17:02:03.188-04:002018-05-24T17:02:03.188-04:00making it a cash equivalent. Tom Hickey
No, since...<i>making it a cash equivalent.</i> Tom Hickey<br /><br />No, since cash can be stolen, not so with an inherently risk-free "savings account" at the Central Bank.<br /><br />If the rich want to hoard risk-free they should have to pay for it - especially for the shorter maturity debt of a monetary sovereign.Andrew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14296407661618321637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-31063775322880829452018-05-24T16:58:35.578-04:002018-05-24T16:58:35.578-04:00The 250K deposit limit is virtually meaningless si...<i>The 250K deposit limit is virtually meaningless since one can have fully insured accounts at multiple institutions.</i> Tom Hickey<br /><br />Which is one reason why government-provided deposit insurance should be abolished in favor of inherently risk-free individual citizen accounts at the Central Bank itself - said accounts to be negative-interest-free up to, say, $250,000.Andrew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14296407661618321637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-46073462006383547742018-05-24T16:52:52.620-04:002018-05-24T16:52:52.620-04:00The 250K deposit limit is virtually meaningless si...The 250K deposit limit is virtually meaningless since one can have fully insured accounts at multiple institutions.<br /><br />And the 250K is a policy variable.Tom Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08454222098667643650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-42971938288681602912018-05-24T16:50:38.584-04:002018-05-24T16:50:38.584-04:00 With ZIRP, a 30 bill would be issued at very clos... With ZIRP, a 30 bill would be issued at very close to 0%, making it a cash equivalent.Tom Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08454222098667643650noreply@blogger.com