tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post1451550801487646835..comments2024-03-29T09:25:57.035-04:00Comments on Mike Norman Economics: Daniel Little — What About Marx?mike normanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03296006882513340747noreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-12802762307842153272013-05-23T16:59:33.763-04:002013-05-23T16:59:33.763-04:00Well, I don't see why a developed country coul...Well, I don't see why a developed country could not have ethical relationships with developing countries. Once the US learns to quit exploiting its own people that model could be exported to other countries for mutual gain.<br /><br />But now it's dog eat dog to no ones real advantage.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13859046687902645077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-57116972840004300522013-05-23T16:15:00.164-04:002013-05-23T16:15:00.164-04:00FBeard,
While what you say makes sense for a coun...FBeard,<br /><br />While what you say makes sense for a country like the United States, for 'developed' countries...<br /><br />For devloping countries without a capital stock, would the situation be any different? <br /><br />Haven't pretty much all the developed countries in the world developed via heavy state investment + a trade surplus?<br /><br />Is what China is doing now basically what the United States did early on? I thought this was the standard path from underdeveloped to developed, with the "current" developed countries being the major investors and the consumers<br /><br />Seems to me that once the capital stock is sufficiently large, e.g. the United States today, then "we're up on our own two feet" and can deficit spend as needed. I wonder if this is possible for an undeveloped country. <br /><br />Any thoughts?<br />JKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10304508322452669073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-85119889289565144612013-05-22T16:08:36.354-04:002013-05-22T16:08:36.354-04:00"If there was a sufficiently large trade surp...<i>"If there was a sufficiently large trade surplus, then running a budget surplus might be appropriate to counteract demand-inflation."</i> JK<br /><br />No, because in that case the domestic central bank is lending or performing a currency swap to create new fiat for foreigners so the foreigners can buy the exports. The source of inflation is therefore the central bank. But a monetary sovereign has no need for a central bank in the first place! Moreover, why should the monetary sovereign subsidize the purchasing power of foreigners by reducing the purchasing power of its own citizens?! Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13859046687902645077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-61755599960320641742013-05-22T15:16:34.903-04:002013-05-22T15:16:34.903-04:00F.Beard
"...and NEVER run a budget surplus…&...F.Beard<br /><br />"...and NEVER run a budget surplus…"<br /><br />I don't think an MMTer would say that absolutely. If there was a sufficiently large trade surplus, then running a budget surplus might be appropriate to counteract demand-inflation.<br /><br />I don't know if we've ever observed a country that has experienced this. So while theoreticall your statement isn't true, practically it might be.JKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10304508322452669073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-30400944414810856632013-05-22T09:06:08.150-04:002013-05-22T09:06:08.150-04:00It was the insistence on fiat gold that convinced ...It was the insistence on fiat gold that convinced me I was not dealing with true libertarians.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13859046687902645077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-24278017174144628962013-05-22T08:51:12.822-04:002013-05-22T08:51:12.822-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03233997168975370006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-27453084686555271472013-05-22T08:33:08.819-04:002013-05-22T08:33:08.819-04:00PPS:
We could call it "Citizen's Equity....PPS:<br /><br />We could call it "Citizen's Equity."Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13859046687902645077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-84379656309103238322013-05-22T08:31:13.150-04:002013-05-22T08:31:13.150-04:00PS:
Since a monetary sovereign should never borro...PS:<br /><br />Since a monetary sovereign should never borrow, normally run budget deficits and NEVER run a budget surplus then debt-free fiat should normally accumulate in the economy equal to the sum total of the budget deficits.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13859046687902645077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-12804920737481239682013-05-22T08:28:02.279-04:002013-05-22T08:28:02.279-04:00y,
I used to be an Austrian till I found out they...y,<br /><br />I used to be an Austrian till I found out they were deflation-loving gold-bugs who were insensitive to justice.<br /><br />Reading the Bible helped me escape them too.<br /><br />Of course I have a problem with debt-loving Keynesians too but not as much.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13859046687902645077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-78420054797168843732013-05-22T07:35:13.583-04:002013-05-22T07:35:13.583-04:00Nice excecution LK. This was one of the more embar...Nice excecution LK. This was one of the more embarrassing ones for Roddis. Normally he just avoids questions he doesn't like. This time he didn't and he got slayed for it.<br /><br />Lord Keynes the Austrian Slayer.<br /><br />JKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10304508322452669073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-36617297081274167582013-05-22T05:29:17.878-04:002013-05-22T05:29:17.878-04:00F. you don't seem to be very familiar with Bob...F. you don't seem to be very familiar with Bob's ideology. He thinks deflation is great and hates fiat money.yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03233997168975370006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-56496939205270683062013-05-21T17:20:30.131-04:002013-05-21T17:20:30.131-04:00Fine. Then let's contract bank credit by bann...Fine. Then let's contract bank credit by banning any further credit creation and by providing the entire population, including non-debtors, with equal amounts of new fiat so the debtors can pay off their bank loans without deflation.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13859046687902645077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-54821693808572224902013-05-21T17:16:14.098-04:002013-05-21T17:16:14.098-04:00So you reject a term and concept used by Mises, Ro...<i>So you reject a term and concept used by Mises, Rothbard and Hayek ...</i><br /><br />The Austrians think two wrongs make a right. The wrong of bank credit expansion is to be "corrected" with bank credit contraction.<br /><br />By their logic, pulling out a barbed arrow is the correct thing to do. <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13859046687902645077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-55836692511747185032013-05-21T10:24:16.381-04:002013-05-21T10:24:16.381-04:00(1) "1. I claim that no Keynesian understands...(1) <i>"1. I claim that no Keynesian understands Austrian analysis. I have no idea what "Walrasians" know or think about anything much less Austrian analysis and I don't care. "</i><br /><br />More proof of your profound ignorance, roddis.<br /><br />Both Old (neoclassical synethesis) Keynesians and New Keynesians (like Krugman) are Walrasians (though Post Keynesians are not).<br /><br />You know nothing about Keynesianism.<br /><br />(2) <i>"I claim to have never seen a reference to Walras promoting the idea of prices as the essential source of information for economic calculation"</i><br /><br />Of course, they do -- equilibrium prices convey knowledge of how to equate demand with supply.<br /><br />And so now you admit that the notion of a tendency towards market clearing prices to equate demand with supply is shared by both Walrasians AND Austrians?<br /><br />(3) <i>"I do not like the term "market clearing prices". I don't use it and I do not think it is particularly helpful in understanding reality."</i><br /><br />So you reject a term and concept used by Mises, Rothbard and Hayek and react to the idea by saying "WTF are you actually trying to say"?!<br /><br />Basically, you are ignorant of basic Austrian concepts.<br /><br />You wouldn't understand Austrian theory if it bit you in the a**.Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-91353958010972786152013-05-21T09:57:54.917-04:002013-05-21T09:57:54.917-04:001. I claim that no Keynesian understands Austrian...1. I claim that no Keynesian understands Austrian analysis. I have no idea what "Walrasians" know or think about anything much less Austrian analysis and I don't care. <br /><br />2. I claim to have never seen a reference to Walras promoting the idea of prices as the essential source of information for economic calculation or the distortion of the pricing process by Keyenesian/FRB policies which induce malinvestments. Throughout these eons of your hysterics on this stupid subject, you haven't produced such a reference either. <br /><br />3. I do not like the term "market clearing prices". I don't use it and I do not think it is particularly helpful in understanding reality. When I see the term used, my reaction is always "WTF are you actually trying to say"?Bob Roddishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17263804608074597937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-73975968823371529592013-05-21T09:45:28.330-04:002013-05-21T09:45:28.330-04:00Bob Roddis@May 21, 2013 at 9:07 AM:
"I have ...<i>Bob Roddis@May 21, 2013 at 9:07 AM:<br /><br />"I have nothing else to say on the subject. I claim <b>no specific expertise regarding Walras and never have."</b></i><br /><br />Wow. You admit to being an ignoramus on Walrasian theory, and yet you claim that no Walrasian understands Austrian theory or Austrian concepts?<br />Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-18225413815790087292013-05-21T09:42:21.498-04:002013-05-21T09:42:21.498-04:00"What is important is that the rest of you kn...<i>"What is important is that the rest of you know nothing about Austrian analysis but claim to have refuted it"</i><br /><br />No, roddis, YOU do not understand the Austrian theory you claim to support.Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-17071365104743046032013-05-21T09:40:42.918-04:002013-05-21T09:40:42.918-04:00"I do not know and I do not care if “the idea...<i>"I do not know and I do not care if “the idea of a tendency towards market clearing prices [is] a particular idea shared by both Walrasians and Austrians”."</i><br /><br />In other words, you are too stupid to see or too dishonest to admit that <br /><br />(1) the notion of a tendency towards market clearing prices to equate demand with supply is shared by both Walrasians AND Austrians.<br /><br />(2) your stock Hayek quote also uses this idea -- Hayek calls it an equilibrium structure of prices and wages.<br /><br />(3) Mises's "final state of rest" is just the Austrian analogue of Walras's general equilibrium (GE) state. Just like Mises, Walras of course never believed that his GE state would ever actually exist in the real world, but there is a tendency towards it.<br /><br />Austrian theory places a tendency towards market clearing prices by human action at the centre of its theory of economic coordination. It is very similar to Walrasian theory in that respect.<br />-----------<br /><br />Congratulations, roddis, all your idiocy denying these things in the comments I have posted above (and which anyone can read and verify for themselves) has just collapsed.<br /><br />You look like a complete fool and utterly deserve it too. <br />Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-48093823899991856622013-05-21T09:07:14.301-04:002013-05-21T09:07:14.301-04:00According to Wikipedia:
Because for a long time m...According to Wikipedia:<br /><br /><i>Because for a long time most of Walras' publications were only available in French, only a relatively small section of the economics profession really became familiar with his work. This changed in the 1950s, largely due to the work of William Jaffé, the translator of Walras' main works, and the editor of his Complete Correspondence (1965).[citation needed] Walras' work was also too mathematically complex for many contemporary readers of his time. On the other hand, it has a great insight into the market process under idealized conditions so it has been far more read in the modern era.********<br /><br />General equilibrium theory <br /><br />In 1874 and 1877 Walras published Elements of Pure Economics, a work that led him to be considered the father of the general equilibrium theory. The problem that Walras set out to solve was one presented by Cournot, that even though it could be demonstrated that prices would equate supply and demand to clear individual markets, it was unclear that an equilibrium existed for all markets simultaneously.<br />Walras constructed his basic theory of general equilibrium by beginning with simple equations and then increasing the complexity in the next equations. He began with a two person bartering system, then moved on to the derivation of downward-sloping consumer demands. Next he moved on to exchanges involving multiple parties, and finally ended with credit and money.<br />Walras created a system of simultaneous equations in an attempt to solve Cournot's problem "(which supposedly Walras at first thought was complete merely because the number of equations equalled the number of unknowns)"[6]<br />The crucial step in the argument was Walras' Law which states that any particular market must be in equilibrium, if all other markets in an economy are also in equilibrium. Walras' Law hinges on the mathematical notion that excess market demands (or, inversely, excess market supplies) must sum to zero. This means that, in an economy with n markets, it is sufficient to solve n-1 simultaneous equations for market clearing. Taking one good as the numeraire in terms of which prices are specified, the economy has n-1 prices that can be determined by the equation, so an equilibrium should exist. Although Walras set out the framework for thinking about the existence of equilibrium clearly and precisely his attempt to demonstrate existence by counting the number of equations and variables was severely flawed: it is easy to see that not all pairs of equations in two variables have solutions. A more rigorous version of the argument was developed by Kenneth Arrow and Gérard Debreu in the 1950s.</i><br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A9on_Walras<br /><br />That does not sound like Austrian analysis to me, which was my original point and I stand by it. I do not know and I do not care if “the idea of a tendency towards market clearing prices [is] a particular idea shared by both Walrasians and Austrians”.<br /><br />I have nothing else to say on the subject. I claim no specific expertise regarding Walras and never have. What is important is that the rest of you know nothing about Austrian analysis but claim to have refuted it. I find that quite fascinating (but bizarre).Bob Roddishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17263804608074597937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-31660268542250322212013-05-21T06:43:02.701-04:002013-05-21T06:43:02.701-04:00For Roddis: http://www.hark.com/braveheart/the-alm...For Roddis: http://www.hark.com/braveheart/the-almighty-says-dont-change-the-subjectJKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10304508322452669073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-44966308438157373532013-05-20T20:35:22.845-04:002013-05-20T20:35:22.845-04:00This is great. Enjoying it. Please continue.
Rod...This is great. Enjoying it. Please continue. <br /><br />Roddis, do everyone a favor here.. LK is repeatedly asking a question. Here's what you do… <br /><br />First, quote it:<br /><br />"Is the idea of a tendency towards market clearing prices a particular idea shared by both Walrasians and Austrians?"<br /><br />Second, answer it. <br /><br />----------------------------------------<br />JKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10304508322452669073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-78036852853349688432013-05-20T13:43:57.095-04:002013-05-20T13:43:57.095-04:00"In the context of observing that people will...<i>"In the context of observing that people will tend to make for sale only stuff that think they can likely sell, I think it is fair to say that both schools of thought share that particular idea."</i><br /><br />And so do Keynesians, idiot.<br /><br />But that is not what I asked, roddis.<br /><br />Is the idea of a tendency towards market clearing prices a particular idea shared by both Walrasians and Austrians?<br />Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-11021399609168438822013-05-20T13:40:46.355-04:002013-05-20T13:40:46.355-04:00"My theory does not assume a mechanical respo...<i>"My theory does not assume a mechanical response of price cutting when the alternative of cutting production and employment might be more profitable."</i><br /><br />Yes, it does assume this in its ideal and prescriptive model of how markets should function.<br />But you are clueless on basic Austrian concepts.<br /><br /><i>"Mr. Hickey got you to admit that in the short run, prices are dropped on the over-produced items to “clear the market”."</i><br /><br />No, roddis, that is NOT what I said. I said you can undoubtedly find SOME examples of this or a combination of the other factors he mentioned, but in the real world often businesses just add the goods to inventory, which contradicts your theory.<br /><br />And again I ask: does your stock Hayek quotation invoke the idea of a tendency towards market-clearing prices and wages?<br /><br />Yes or no?<br /><br />Care to answer? Or are you still an utter idiot and little coward?<br /><br />I am guessing the later.<br />Lord Keyneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06556863604205200159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-58914081206823100492013-05-20T13:37:26.257-04:002013-05-20T13:37:26.257-04:00We did not ask you whether it is exactly the same ...<i>We did not ask you whether it is exactly the same in every detail (it's not), but whether the idea of a tendency towards market clearing prices is a particular idea shared by both Walrasians and Austrians</i>.<br /><br />In the context of observing that people will tend to make for sale only stuff that think they can likely sell, I think it is fair to say that both schools of thought share that particular idea.<br /><br />But that is a different concept than revealed prices as the essential source of the information necessary for economic calculation or the distortion of those prices (and information) caused by Keynesian and/or FRB policies which is the point I was making so many eons ago.<br /><br />zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzBob Roddishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17263804608074597937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-77758185832573575682013-05-20T13:37:14.596-04:002013-05-20T13:37:14.596-04:00So are you saying that in your world, year after y...<i>So are you saying that in your world, year after year business people keep producing 5x the amount of junk they can actually sell profitably regardless of their ability to sell it profitably? Business people keep producing and bringing to market men's 70s bell bottom jeans through 2013?</i><br /><br />What happens is different in different markets. <br /><br />Some markets, usually low margin like computers, run on very tight inventory, Dell carries less than a week and Apple decided to match.<br /><br />Other markets, usually high margin, run on very loose inventory, and factor what the don't sell to other venues to be sold at a discount. The remainder is liquidated.<br /><br />Businesses with perishable products will reduce price if they have to, but are also likely to factor those goods, e.g., with an expiration date approaching.<br /><br />But the basic principle is that firms generally do everything possible before marking down prices in their own venue because it sets a precedent. As a result they develop different strategies for inventory control based on quantity, and if demand falls they don't usually reduce prices but instead reduce production to clear inventory. <br /><br />Sellers of final goods do use gimmicks to reduce inventory, such as clearance sales, but this doesn't reduce the market price because it is temporary and attracts impulse buyers afraid to lose out on a price cut that will be going away. This is very different psychologically from reducing prices.Tom Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08454222098667643650noreply@blogger.com