tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post2766003170309378344..comments2024-03-28T20:28:01.733-04:00Comments on Mike Norman Economics: Ellis Winningham — If You Can Deliberately Restrain Federal Spending, You Can Deliberately Expand Itmike normanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03296006882513340747noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-80686561633811153202017-08-01T08:42:22.164-04:002017-08-01T08:42:22.164-04:00Surprised you'd think that, Calgacus. Maybe th...Surprised you'd think that, Calgacus. Maybe the US experience has been different. In Australia indigenous Australians didn't even have the vote till well into the 1960s.<br /><br />To me it seems clear that socially things have improved markedly, whereas economically things have regressed steadily and in some places catastrophically under neoliberalism.<br /><br />Or maybe you mean the creeping police state. I'd agree with that.peterchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01617954484867427637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-63413563204524024332017-08-01T00:08:17.479-04:002017-08-01T00:08:17.479-04:00Peterc:Economically, there were good things about ...Peterc:<i>Economically, there were good things about the "golden age", relative to today, but who on the left really wants to return to the bigotry and authoritarianism of that era?</i><br /><br />Well, since in many respects - and quite arguably overall - it was <i>less</i> bigoted and authoritarian than now, it is not "unleft" to wish to return to that (lower degree) of authoritarianism and bigotry. I don't think that it can be seriously argued that the "golden age" saw consistent movement in the right direction, and my argument gets stronger the later in that age one looks at. And as for the neoliberal age, at the very best it saw a slowdown in progress, concentrated in matters of form rather than substance - and in many respects a regression. <br /><br />E.g. there really was period in the USA after the old Jim Crow & before the new one. The bad guys are good at writing such things out of history & their version often becomes accepted.Calgacushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06031818010224747000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-45404961962243434252017-07-31T18:45:06.041-04:002017-07-31T18:45:06.041-04:00@ MRW: EW=Oz@ MRW: EW=OzStevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12568408482345518809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-65446825583713489822017-07-31T14:53:44.692-04:002017-07-31T14:53:44.692-04:00Thanks for introducing me to Ellis Winningham. Nev...Thanks for introducing me to Ellis Winningham. Never heard of him before? Is he British? Australian? What?MRWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13878920695841363553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-41811399909800461092017-07-31T09:27:21.902-04:002017-07-31T09:27:21.902-04:00No millenial would have a clue why the one major p...No millenial would have a clue why the one major party in UK is called "labour" ... Matt Frankohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11978352335097260145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-45257897498331542812017-07-31T09:26:22.260-04:002017-07-31T09:26:22.260-04:00Neil at least over here with the identity politics...Neil at least over here with the identity politics people they are not nationalists...<br /><br />You guys might still look at "labor" and "capital" as identities due to your training in Marx but no one looks at those identities any more in millenials... it's all about race and gender identities... Matt Frankohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11978352335097260145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-17157547409735056732017-07-31T09:21:52.284-04:002017-07-31T09:21:52.284-04:00Alt-right are just advocates for white identity as...Alt-right are just advocates for white identity as all the millenials have been trained to think in this identitarian type of way...Matt Frankohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11978352335097260145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-90686202262901186762017-07-31T09:19:54.903-04:002017-07-31T09:19:54.903-04:00The millenials have been heavily trained in identi...The millenials have been heavily trained in identity politics by the boomers...Matt Frankohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11978352335097260145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-25150692504591142742017-07-31T08:41:54.000-04:002017-07-31T08:41:54.000-04:00"Identity politics" is the term of criti..."Identity politics" is the term of critics. That's the reason for the scare quotes.peterchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01617954484867427637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-17254030691582146362017-07-31T00:38:07.160-04:002017-07-31T00:38:07.160-04:00How is "identity politics" anything othe...How is "identity politics" anything other than nationalism and patriotism dressed up in different clothes? You've just decided to draw the borders differently. <br /><br />There is no more justification for the groupings espoused in "identity politics" than there is for groupings of nations. It's nothing more than a way of avoiding the "rich" and "poor" groupings that otherwise would spring up. Hence we get a 'gender pay gap' argument in the UK about a set of people earning 10 or 20 times the median wage - neatly avoiding the main issue. Why the hell are these people getting paid so much in the first place? <br /><br />The clear intent is to try and manipulate minds to try and get poor individuals to identify as a grouping with rich individuals so the rich can stay rich and in power. <br />NeilWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11565959939525324309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-9787104541457635722017-07-30T04:50:23.351-04:002017-07-30T04:50:23.351-04:00Ellis has a real flair. Enjoyed his post for the w...Ellis has a real flair. Enjoyed his post for the way it is written as well as for the economic content. (I tend to be leery of patriotic or nationalistic sentiments, although it probably plays well to the intended audience.)<br /><br />The title seems to be designed to get the reader wondering what is meant by it. The logic, if this is not misinterpreting, is that we need to take democratic control of policy by mounting and sustaining strong pressure from below on government. If policy can be used for bad, it can also be used for good. It's ultimately up to us.<br /><br />To go off on something of a tangent, there is clearly a divide on the left when it comes to neoliberalism. One side criticizes so-called "identity politics" and prioritizes a move toward or beyond social democracy. The other side prioritizes what is being derided as "identity politics" over economics to the point that they see neoliberalism as less threat than a social democracy that comes with any hint of red-brown collaboration. Part of this, too, is that this side often regards capitalism as being irredeemable economically, and so regards little as achievable on the economic front prior to a revolution.<br /><br />One side sees solidarity as built upon economic foundations (inclusion, etc.). The other sees the "identity politics" as a precondition for solidarity.<br /><br />Personally, I find myself in neither camp in the sense that I am all for the "identity politics", am leery of any whiff of nationalism or even patriotism, but also see neoliberal economic policies as immensely socially destructive. In addition, a big attraction of MMT, from a left perspective, is that it shows how we can use hopefully socially transformative policy to transcend capitalism.<br /><br />An ongoing difficulty seems to be achieving the collectivism without the social chauvinism that, in the past, has often come with it. Economically, there were good things about the "golden age", relative to today, but who on the left really wants to return to the bigotry and authoritarianism of that era?peterchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01617954484867427637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-19588257713565273982017-07-30T00:07:54.520-04:002017-07-30T00:07:54.520-04:00"If You Can Deliberately Restrain Federal Spe..."If You Can Deliberately Restrain Federal Spending, You Can Deliberately Expand It"<br /><br />Bad logic, although its true specifically for the federal governmentAndréhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10935332922520483975noreply@blogger.com