tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post3445298442150324086..comments2024-03-29T02:19:19.866-04:00Comments on Mike Norman Economics: Elizabeth Warren Hits the Campaign Trail With Hillary Clinton in Ohio—Embarrasses Herselfmike normanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03296006882513340747noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-17402178914601495222016-07-02T04:47:52.961-04:002016-07-02T04:47:52.961-04:00Hundreds Of Suicides In India Linked To Microfinan...Hundreds Of Suicides In India Linked To Microfinance Organizations<br />http://www.businessinsider.com/hundreds-of-suicides-in-india-linked-to-microfinance-organizations-2012-2<br /><br />No need to embellish.Peter Panhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09473311771939167712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-70898384768243855082016-07-02T04:47:44.756-04:002016-07-02T04:47:44.756-04:00but not at the cost of being loose with the facts....<i>but not at the cost of being loose with the facts. </i> SDB<br /><br />Agree. Andrew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14296407661618321637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-12371855813339676452016-07-01T22:05:52.201-04:002016-07-01T22:05:52.201-04:00Andrwed Anderson : "Anyone can make a mistake...Andrwed Anderson : "Anyone can make a mistake."<br /><br />True. Which is why I said "one of many examples" but probably should have just stayed out of examples. Really my biggest criticism is that Keivey's writing is full of conjecture.. The reason I highlighed "hundreds of times over" is to emphasize the embellishment style of Kaivery's writing. Hundreds of times over isn't an honest mistake, it's an exaggeration for effect. That's how Kaivey writes. As Kaivey just admitted, he writes polemics. "I was going from gut instinct." - Kaivey<br /><br />I'm open to members of the Left getting a bit more Trump-ish in tone, more aggressive - I think there's a place for the Mike Norman's and the Tom Hickey's - but not at the cost of being loose with the facts.SDBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15073028702970710377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-71236965186512828852016-07-01T19:01:01.693-04:002016-07-01T19:01:01.693-04:00You come across as a young person to me, Andrew. I...You come across as a young person to me, Andrew. I think your idealistic like me. Kaiveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04195639305785321786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-72283701317526182552016-07-01T18:56:24.840-04:002016-07-01T18:56:24.840-04:00I knew I would get some stick film my post, but I ...I knew I would get some stick film my post, but I think we can get caught up in the complexities and then it fizzles it . I knew that there was lots of things that could get easily criticised, but I wasn't writing to be precisely correct, I was going from gut instinct. I'm often disappointed in the liberal left for being too nice, so that's why I really liked about Mike Norman's youtube videos because he doesn't mince his words and that's what attracted me to this site. <br /><br />I had written some polemic stuff about libertarians on another site that Mike Norman liked, so that's why he asked me to come on here to write. He also liked that I write my own stuff. <br /><br />I have but studied economics, I have just read a few books about having for the lay person. I'm reading an MMT book right now. Kaiveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04195639305785321786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-90866265206856827462016-07-01T18:28:44.698-04:002016-07-01T18:28:44.698-04:00But it is a fact. But I know it is not an easy thi...But it is a fact. But I know it is not an easy thing to sort out, a loan is a loan. But many third world have paid in interest many over what the origins loan was worth. Kaiveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04195639305785321786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-51121612095104823892016-07-01T18:13:43.290-04:002016-07-01T18:13:43.290-04:00Anyone can make a mistake. I made plenty when I s...Anyone can make a mistake. I made plenty when I started out. I'm sure he'll live and learn.<br /><br />Besides I think he's young and I'm interested in how and what the next generation is thinking since I plan to outlive mine. :)Andrew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14296407661618321637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-24884750507555447372016-07-01T17:12:48.281-04:002016-07-01T17:12:48.281-04:00Andrew Anderson: "Yes, leave Kaivey alone. He...Andrew Anderson: "Yes, leave Kaivey alone. He's got something to say."<br /><br />Leave Kaivey alone? This isn't the playground where everyone is picking on poor little Kaivey. This is readers of MNE expressing a dissatisfaction. No harm no foul, except for maybe Kaivery's feelings. From my perspective Kaivey's posts read like facebook rants, soaked and dripping with conjecture. One of many examples: "Which means it is possible that over the course of their lifetime they may in effect pay off the loan hundreds of times over but with the principle is still left in place." - Kaivey. Riiiiiiight.SDBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15073028702970710377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-61464339386839888682016-07-01T16:24:06.131-04:002016-07-01T16:24:06.131-04:00Distribution, and therefore distributive justice, ...<i>Distribution, and therefore distributive justice, is ignored in neoclassical modeling, which focused on supply (production) and demand (consumption.</i><br /><br />What are we distributing? If its commodities, then those who have the money will receive the 'justice'.Peter Panhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09473311771939167712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-47519575082675560582016-07-01T16:18:48.231-04:002016-07-01T16:18:48.231-04:00Her income is from wages, his income is from profi...Her income is from wages, his income is from profit. That is one definition of class. You can't ignore it by calling it Marxist, as if the term Marxist were an epithet.<br /><br />When criticism of capitalism (or any topic) fails to elicit a response, the term "crickets chirping" is used. Followed some time later by QED.Peter Panhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09473311771939167712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-76215381115180608932016-07-01T15:51:05.692-04:002016-07-01T15:51:05.692-04:00Tom, being trained in philosophy, will use 1000 wo...<i>Tom, being trained in philosophy, will use 1000 words where 100 words would suffice.</i><br /><br />A key aspect of philosophical method is drawing distinctions that introduce nuance and bring clarity to confused or conflated issues. There is a saying, When in doubt, draw a distinction. It is also expressed as, When in doubt draw it out.<br /><br />Part of this is pointing out what arguments ignore. What is not said is often more important than what is said. <br /><br />For example, it is characteristic of sophistical argument to leave out matters that are germane but impede the the case.<br /><br />This is typical in politics and political economy. A glaring example of this in politics and political economy is ignoring asymmetry, concealing it, or even denying it. Class is a good example. "Class" is considered Marxist, which is a derogatory term used to impugn. Distribution, and therefore distributive justice, is ignored in neoclassical modeling, which focused on supply (production) and demand (consumption. This assumes that market forces handle distribution most efficiently so no more needs be said about it in that no one can be made better off without making others worse off.Tom Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08454222098667643650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-56788621102706917302016-07-01T15:14:13.218-04:002016-07-01T15:14:13.218-04:00Or 20?
Yes, leave Kaivey alone. He's got so...Or 20? <br /><br />Yes, leave Kaivey alone. He's got something to say.Andrew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14296407661618321637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-72590059609893253062016-07-01T15:04:46.005-04:002016-07-01T15:04:46.005-04:00Kaivey is no worse than Mike is by being blunt.
To...Kaivey is no worse than Mike is by being blunt.<br />Tom, being trained in philosophy, will use 1000 words where 100 words would suffice.Peter Panhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09473311771939167712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-53587302960583083062016-07-01T11:56:08.645-04:002016-07-01T11:56:08.645-04:00FWIW, I agree with Richard's comment above tha...FWIW, I agree with Richard's comment above that Kaivey's contributions to MNE are bringing down the quality of this blog. Whereas someone like Tom Hickey brings deeply knowledgeable and thoughtful commentary to topics, Kaivey's commentary reads as intellectually weak and highly ideological (in a bad way).<br /><br />I apologize for the harsh words Kaivey. If it makes you feel any better, I wouldn't make myself a contributer here either.SDBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15073028702970710377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-53604030951213388722016-07-01T04:40:30.235-04:002016-07-01T04:40:30.235-04:00I don't like generalizations, but caring about...I don't like generalizations, but caring about your OWN land and the lan d of OTHERS and NO ONE is a different thing.<br /><br />Externalization of costs is the specialization of private activity in general... You know cause you have done it, or you are lying to yourself.Ignaciohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16082008115484199316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-6465367235456486192016-07-01T04:37:48.981-04:002016-07-01T04:37:48.981-04:00Even if many private landowner do look after their...Even if many private landowner do look after their land well, and why not, libertarians will still defend the right of any landowner to do as he likes with his land, even if it ruins it. Many large corporations are doing just this. <br /><br />In my neighbourhood you can't alter your if from the front it doesn't fit in with the area. Developers are not allowed to build property that doesn't have car parking facilities. My neighbour was stopped from turning his house into flats because he couldn't provide the extra car parking spaces. He moaned and moaned about it but parking your car in my street was a nightmare, so I'm glad the council stopped him. Hooray for big councils. Kaiveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04195639305785321786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-27328153899919553002016-07-01T04:28:44.969-04:002016-07-01T04:28:44.969-04:00It might be just modernity, and not much to do wit...It might be just modernity, and not much to do with neoliberalism, but things are much better for physically disabled people too, at least as far as rights are concerned anyway (although they probably get far less benefits under neoliberalism). They have better access to places, free bus passes (in the UK), and much better job prospects. My local Tesco's employers people with Downs Syndrome, you never used to see that before. And mentally ill people have far more events to go to and things to do. Andrew, my local council runs all this and does an excellent of it too. I couldn't imagine any one else doing it better, and they do it on a small budget too. <br /><br />So liberalism and modernity had brought great benefits, but the next thing to be undone is neoliberalism itself. Then we really move forward to the next stage. Kaiveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04195639305785321786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-74322562873219373442016-07-01T04:11:18.444-04:002016-07-01T04:11:18.444-04:00Hi Tom, there's a lot to criticise in neoliber...Hi Tom, there's a lot to criticise in neoliberalism, but it does have a liberal side which many traditional conservatives deeply dislike. The New Liberals really are relaxed about gay marriage, transgender people, more equal status for women. This doesn't compensate for the monstrosity that it is, but if we get through this without a world war, perhaps we have a much brighter future ahead I remain hopeful. Kaiveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04195639305785321786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-16382316141405051562016-07-01T02:35:13.816-04:002016-07-01T02:35:13.816-04:00"Libertarians believe he an even pollute it a..."Libertarians believe he an even pollute it as much as he wants..."<br /><br />Kaivey - Put the crack pipe down. You don't have a clue about what Libertarians believe. It's common knowledge that private landowners tend to be better stewards of the land they own. The government is the biggest polluter.The Rombach Reporthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09982864018333283368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-31721994937064191712016-06-30T23:02:25.370-04:002016-06-30T23:02:25.370-04:00"Utopias for example would have to be populat..."Utopias for example would have to be populated with angels rather than human beings "<br /><br />Tom those things are better described as 'messengers' (Greek angelion) they don't have intelligence like we do... They are not created in the image of God like we are.... We are above them ,....Matt Frankohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11978352335097260145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-22451186530428520002016-06-30T22:50:47.404-04:002016-06-30T22:50:47.404-04:00That's not the way it works you need to identi...That's not the way it works you need to identify income and collateral...Matt Frankohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11978352335097260145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-67062270264376805702016-06-30T19:39:46.347-04:002016-06-30T19:39:46.347-04:00And selling it of course. Random
Just the proper...<i>And selling it of course. </i> Random<br /><br />Just the proper abolition of deposit insurance in the US might require the distribution of $20,000 per adult citizen or more to provide the new reserves required. That should sell itself if a big name will get behind it.Andrew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14296407661618321637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-66453858754987779522016-06-30T19:22:30.336-04:002016-06-30T19:22:30.336-04:00"Banks would still exist but as fully private..."Banks would still exist but as fully private businesses with fully voluntary depositors"<br /><br />OK. But how would this solve the creditworthiness problem? BIG or "equal fiat distributions" help reduce inequality and increase creditworthiness of the poor, but it does so regardless of changes to the banking system. <br /><br />The problem I can see is a bunch of intermediaries putting their cut on the price of money in your system, similar to the banks now. Better the central bank lends to the entrepreneur nearly directly IMV. To be clear, I *can* see the "equal fiat distributions" possibly doing it but it would depend on how large they are, and your idea is clearly better than the current system.<br /><br />The next stage of your plan is coming up with appropriate figures. And selling it of course.Randomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04445772572707818311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-43560062707445211252016-06-30T18:39:37.844-04:002016-06-30T18:39:37.844-04:00but there still needs to be someone to check proje...<i>but there still needs to be someone to check projects.</i> random<br /><br />Banks would still exist but as fully private businesses with fully voluntary depositors they would be much more intermediaries between borrowers and savers and much less able to create liabilities safely.<br /><br />But then wouldn't interest rates go up? Probably and that's where equal fiat distributions to all citizens come in - to lower interest rates without cheating anyone.Andrew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14296407661618321637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-35864596110563645492016-06-30T18:15:52.213-04:002016-06-30T18:15:52.213-04:00I am not arguing for a position here, just stating...I am not arguing for a position here, just stating that the issues are deep and need to be considered in depth. That means first getting the background by reading the major contributors, and not just those that one agrees with, which is confirmation bias.<br /><br />Just about everything important in life is multifaceted and involves some tradeoffs. The only perfect systems are ideal, existing only the mind. Utopias for example would have to be populated with angels rather than human beings in their present state of evolution generally.<br /><br />Liberalism is, of course, not the only social, political and economic theory, but it is the one that predominates in the developed world, especially in the Western world and in the Anglo-American world (in which I include Canada, Australia and New Zealand). The trifecta of social, political and economic liberalism has yet to be harmonized and the paradoxes overcome. <br /><br />Moreover, why liberalism is superior to other forms of social, political, and economic organization also needs to be justified.<br /><br />These issues involve many of the enduring questions, such as what does it mean to live a good life as an individual in a good society. The intellectual history of humanity explores these issues and there are many competing POVs. It's a huge assumption to think that one of these is right and held it good faith while all others are wrong and held either through ignorance or in bad faith.Tom Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08454222098667643650noreply@blogger.com