tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post3680092020348010098..comments2024-03-28T04:13:36.779-04:00Comments on Mike Norman Economics: Degrowth and the ‘assistance’ of Modern Monetary Theory — Peter Maymike normanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03296006882513340747noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-7817816673620790232020-10-03T05:22:11.515-04:002020-10-03T05:22:11.515-04:00Really Andrew, I doubt the MMT crowd see themselve...Really Andrew, I doubt the MMT crowd see themselves as fearing the wealthy.<br />What kind of a "progressive" fears the wealthy?Peter Panhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09473311771939167712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-22219414488512360842020-10-02T18:03:17.446-04:002020-10-02T18:03:17.446-04:00I fear neither.I fear neither.Peter Panhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09473311771939167712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-86679595104864362282020-10-02T17:28:03.847-04:002020-10-02T17:28:03.847-04:00Opponents will insist it's a UBI scheme. Peter...<i>Opponents will insist it's a UBI scheme.</i> Peter Pan<br /><br />It isn't since the ONLY purpose of a Citizen's Dividend is to replace all fiat creation for private interests AND to counter price deflation so that fiat hoarding is not rewarded. That may or may not be a UBI.<br /><br /><i>Take the JG... you have a moral obligation to work.. unless you're wealthy.</i><br /><br />The MMT crowd would do better to fear God and not the wealthy (c.f. Proverbs 29:25).Andrew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14296407661618321637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-22825555880609838892020-10-02T17:13:23.196-04:002020-10-02T17:13:23.196-04:00What other term can be used?
Opponents will insis...What other term can be used?<br /><br />Opponents will insist it's a UBI scheme.<br /><br />As for social contracts, it's important that they don't have loopholes. Take the JG... you have a moral obligation to work.. unless you're wealthy.Peter Panhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09473311771939167712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-82582429033381677732020-10-02T17:04:01.853-04:002020-10-02T17:04:01.853-04:00I felt my reply was hasty.
Besides, dividends are...I felt my reply was hasty.<br /><br />Besides, dividends are a side-issue except they should be suspect since they defeat the purpose of a common stock company which is to consolidate assets not dissipate them.<br /><br />That said, a Citizen's Dividend is not really a dividend since it does not deplete assets but is instead an anti-deflation device.Andrew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14296407661618321637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-12759821699726021952020-10-02T16:52:21.186-04:002020-10-02T16:52:21.186-04:00Why did you delete your post?
Non arms-length tran...Why did you delete your post?<br />Non arms-length transactions are rife in that sector.Peter Panhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09473311771939167712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-68465157372961671702020-10-02T12:37:24.371-04:002020-10-02T12:37:24.371-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Andrew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14296407661618321637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-9218893693785381582020-10-02T12:18:22.260-04:002020-10-02T12:18:22.260-04:00Dividends aren't dumb if the intention is to c...Dividends aren't dumb if the intention is to create more shares and sell them for actual money.<br /><br />On the whole, this approach should be easier to sell to the public than a job guarantee.Peter Panhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09473311771939167712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-68069316909978117842020-10-02T11:24:21.228-04:002020-10-02T11:24:21.228-04:00Businesses have the option of issuing shares - it&...<i>Businesses have the option of issuing shares - it's not mandatory. </i> PP<br /><br />It would be much more mandatory (for their business survival) without government privileges for private credit creation; i.e. for "the banks."<br /><br /><i>They have the option of paying dividends - again, not mandatory.</i> PP<br /><br />Dividends are dumb since the purpose of a common stock company is to consolidate assets for economies of scale, not dissipate them. Besides, the common stock itself is a form of asset-backed private money. <br /><br /><i>People have to pay money for shares - not conducive to having everyone be shareholders. </i> <br /><br />Shares can be bartered for and also serve as partial wages.<br /><br /><i>And what about privately held companies? </i><br /><br />Without a government-privileged counterfeiting cartel to serve them, they are much more likely to go public or go under.Andrew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14296407661618321637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-22216976440982862412020-10-02T03:42:33.017-04:002020-10-02T03:42:33.017-04:00Too many loopholes in that contract, Andrew.
Busi...Too many loopholes in that contract, Andrew.<br /><br />Businesses have the option of issuing shares - it's not mandatory.<br />They have the option of paying dividends - again, not mandatory.<br />People have to pay money for shares - not conducive to having everyone be shareholders.<br />And what about privately held companies?Peter Panhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09473311771939167712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-17155381837364767232020-10-01T13:56:32.758-04:002020-10-01T13:56:32.758-04:00We're not all shareholders since government pr...We're not all shareholders since government privileges for private credit creation, aka for "the banks", make it cheaper for companies to "borrow" than to issue new shares in equity.Andrew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14296407661618321637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-91955922618734240332020-10-01T13:52:44.518-04:002020-10-01T13:52:44.518-04:00That social contract was nullified by the narrativ...That social contract was nullified by the narrative of "shareholder value".<br /><br />Why aren't we all shareholders?Peter Panhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09473311771939167712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-79941089087879875172020-10-01T12:07:55.131-04:002020-10-01T12:07:55.131-04:00If society wants you to spend 40 hours a week look...<i>If society wants you to spend 40 hours a week looking for a job, then you better do it, buster. </i> PP<br /><br />The social contract whereby employers shall provide good jobs by using the public's credit but for private gain has been reneged on via automation and outsourcing.<br /><br />Therefore it's time to withdraw government privileges for private credit creation too.Andrew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14296407661618321637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-55946134031164363282020-10-01T10:41:39.482-04:002020-10-01T10:41:39.482-04:00If society wants you to spend 40 hours a week look...If society wants you to spend 40 hours a week looking for a job, then you better do it, buster.Peter Panhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09473311771939167712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-66093774202850529132020-10-01T10:39:15.095-04:002020-10-01T10:39:15.095-04:00Putting a bullet through your skull is my payment ...Putting a bullet through your skull is my payment for taking your stuff.Peter Panhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09473311771939167712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-71200836419629214492020-10-01T08:36:20.413-04:002020-10-01T08:36:20.413-04:00You get paid to use your time for other people'...<i> You get paid to use your time for other people's benefit, because that payment is a claim on other people using their time for your benefit. </i> NeilW<br /><br />An equal Citizen's Dividend, to replace all fiat creation for private interests, would serve the same purpose and without wasting people's time.Andrew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14296407661618321637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-43543377602083828412020-10-01T06:04:53.294-04:002020-10-01T06:04:53.294-04:00"paying ANYONE to waste their time prevents t..."paying ANYONE to waste their time prevents them from doing for themselves"<br /><br />That's sort of the point. You don't get paid to use your time for your own benefit. You get paid to use your time for other people's benefit, because that payment is a claim on other people using their time for your benefit. NeilWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11565959939525324309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-91652165350678992812020-10-01T05:52:19.334-04:002020-10-01T05:52:19.334-04:00Love of sophistry is a human affair that is all to...Love of sophistry is a human affair that is all too real.Peter Panhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09473311771939167712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-5231011585128099332020-09-30T20:35:23.707-04:002020-09-30T20:35:23.707-04:00“Because it is a key piece in the sophistry of per...“Because it is a key piece in the sophistry of persuasion that the haves use to control the have-not's by deluding them. “<br /><br />Conspiracy theory....Matt Frankohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11082502216984169113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-22765619839303595142020-09-30T16:15:52.380-04:002020-09-30T16:15:52.380-04:00Is that so?
In any case, paying ANYONE to waste t...Is that so?<br /><br />In any case, paying ANYONE to waste their time prevents them from doing for themselves and thus increases the demand for the goods and services of others.Andrew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14296407661618321637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-89291424773617376332020-09-30T16:01:17.942-04:002020-09-30T16:01:17.942-04:00Plenty of free markets in Africa, as any cowboy ca...Plenty of free markets in Africa, as any cowboy capitalist will tell you.Peter Panhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09473311771939167712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-1234316166408510912020-09-30T13:54:27.798-04:002020-09-30T13:54:27.798-04:00Mothering is a JG job andrewMothering is a JG job andrewAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06290885452300412179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-56726746205624284862020-09-30T12:43:14.965-04:002020-09-30T12:43:14.965-04:00"Why does everybody keep using the term "..."Why does everybody keep using the term "free" market when it's clearly not?"<br /><br />Because it is a key piece in the sophistry of persuasion that the haves use to control the have-not's by deluding them. Sure, some of the haves actually believe their BS, but they are stupid ones.Tom Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08454222098667643650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-35634299171378722992020-09-30T12:28:46.869-04:002020-09-30T12:28:46.869-04:00and it won't cause any more inflation NeilW
I...<i>and it won't cause any more inflation</i> NeilW<br /><br />I can refute that with a single example:<br /><br />A mother on a JG paid to do nothing must then pay for day-care for her children, also transportation costs to/from work, etc. thereby potentially driving up those costs.<br /><br />It would better to just pay her a Citizen's Dividend (in addition to welfare according to need) to stay home and take care of her family and thereby reduce the demand for outside services and transportation.Andrew Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14296407661618321637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-56621692260023587622020-09-30T12:21:47.171-04:002020-09-30T12:21:47.171-04:00Why does everybody keep using the term "free&...<br />Why does everybody keep using the term "free" market when it's clearly not?<br /><br />https://evonomics.com/why-free-market-ideology-is-a-double-lie/Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09889336010579375144noreply@blogger.com