tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post4818302247145944806..comments2024-03-28T07:50:06.102-04:00Comments on Mike Norman Economics: Beowulf — Health is the War of The Statemike normanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03296006882513340747noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-90491417873686458652017-05-25T11:19:56.503-04:002017-05-25T11:19:56.503-04:00These are not explanations, they are tenuous excus...These are not explanations, they are tenuous excuses:<br /><br />«1. States are not currency issuers and they cannot run deficits. They have to tax or borrow based on future taxes.»<br /><br />Well, MMT correctly says that government spending has to be funded by taxes and cannot be funded by currency issue if there is full employment of real resources, and California and New York and other democratic-run states have had decades of full employment.<br /><br />So this excuse really is "democrat voters in democrat-run states are not willing to pay taxes to cover the cost of universal care".<br />That becomes a rather more damning argument than "democrat supporting trade unions want to keep health care a guild privilege".<br /><br />Also note that since 2000 the eurozone contries are not currency issuers yet most fund their universal care systems with taxes.<br /><br />«<i>2. Clout. States can't set prices the way the federal government can.</i>»<br /><br />The economy of Canada, or for that matter Denmark, is smaller than that of many democrat-run USA states, yet they don't seem to have that problem and have universal health care plans.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-18257946076691645212017-05-23T23:11:41.453-04:002017-05-23T23:11:41.453-04:00Noah Way: Have you thought about Shouldice?
That&...Noah Way: Have you thought about Shouldice?<br /><br />That's where <a href="https://www.commondreams.org/views/2013/07/17/hernia-repair-vacation-anyone" rel="nofollow">Ralph Nader & many others went</a>.<br />Calgacushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06031818010224747000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-50804074164778812922017-05-23T18:01:41.113-04:002017-05-23T18:01:41.113-04:00The government under pays and the corporations tha...<i>The government under pays and the corporations that provide medical care benefits to their employees and up subsidizing the rest of the insured</i><br /><br />This is why there should be single payer. <br /><br />Health care is not natural rivalrous or excludable. <br /><br />The country has already decided that HC should be available to all and even the most hardline proponent of HC as a privilege rather than a right say that everyone has access through emergency room.<br /><br />The reason that HC is rivalrous results from creation of artificial scarcity of providers through various means such as licensing, making it difficult for providers to cross from one jurisdiction to another, and limiting training opportunity through lack of funding expansion indicated by population increase.<br /><br />A single-payer solution could eliminate the rivalry and excludability easily by changing regulation and providing adequate funding for needed resources.<br /><br />A single-payer that is the currency issuer could also use its monopoly power to set payment schedules fairly while making HC universally available as a public good and a social dividend in a developed economy.Tom Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08454222098667643650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-50830146227347276172017-05-23T17:43:44.052-04:002017-05-23T17:43:44.052-04:00Trump is trying to use the subsidies and the HCA t...Trump is trying to use the subsidies and the HCA to establish scale it guarantees which is going to lower he thinks the price of premiums and deductibles he isn't going to explain this to the Neo confederate nut jobs in the freedom caucus all they wanted to ever to do was to effectively lynch Obama by repealing Obamacare Matt Frankohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11978352335097260145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-84376010965566862142017-05-23T17:36:32.636-04:002017-05-23T17:36:32.636-04:00The government under pays and the corporations tha...The government under pays and the corporations that provide medical care benefits to their employees and up subsidizing the rest of the insuredMatt Frankohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11978352335097260145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-66952769346275599852017-05-23T17:16:17.072-04:002017-05-23T17:16:17.072-04:00It's a feedback system where doctors, nurses, ...It's a feedback system where doctors, nurses, hospitals, finance, bond holders, patients, pharma, science researchers make up 25% of the population and vote for policy that benefits themselves at the expense of the majority who are largely unaware or unwilling to confront the spectacle of price gouging. Team politics.Ryan Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04815033054435303399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-16096244607325743742017-05-23T17:06:22.356-04:002017-05-23T17:06:22.356-04:001. States are not currency issuers and they cannot...1. States are not currency issuers and they cannot run deficits. They have to tax or borrow based on future taxes.<br /><br />2. Clout. States can't set prices the way the federal government can.Tom Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08454222098667643650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-78957277132911354682017-05-23T16:23:58.810-04:002017-05-23T16:23:58.810-04:00Matt, the single payer doesn't pay the price. ...Matt, the single payer doesn't pay the price. It sets the price. It's take it or leave it. This is how it actually works in a place that has single payer.Jeff65https://www.blogger.com/profile/10718489243428165684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-44342239956943558532017-05-23T14:32:15.637-04:002017-05-23T14:32:15.637-04:00TGhe technicalities are interesting and "Beow...TGhe technicalities are interesting and "Beowulf" is practical, but the bug issue is political will.<br /><br />The assumption that everybody makes including in this comment thread is that it is all about a federal program. But Romneycare was enacted for Massachussets only before being turned into a national program by Obama.<br /><br />The big question is why ever big Democratic legislatures in states like New York or California haven't created in several decades an Americare/single payer system for their states. I can imagine why states that have had Republican legislatures for decades did not, but several state have had huge "progressive" majorities for decades and have done nothing.<br /><br />Does anyone have a good explanation for that glaring omission other than the hard opposition of trade unions? Trade unions in the USA are essentially guilds, and they were very keen to ensure that health care plans were solely a benefit of guild membership.<br /><br />I reckon that all the discussions about federal healthcare are largely useless until someone explains why state-wide single payers has not been done for decades, except in very tentative form recently in Vermont.<br /><br />First do in the states where it is "easy", and then as momentum builds up, create a federal system. Why hasn't this happened?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-61778985034308338672017-05-23T11:21:54.933-04:002017-05-23T11:21:54.933-04:00Eliminate the ins cos and have the federal governm...Eliminate the ins cos and have the federal government as the sole funder. Then the monopoly nature of HD is recognized and prices are set by what the government is willing to pay. <br /><br />If prices are higher than they need to be (rent extraction), then the cause is corruption. Let the people deal with that at the ballot box.<br /><br />Right now there is no accountability in the system.Tom Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08454222098667643650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-72780841149408308872017-05-23T11:13:37.615-04:002017-05-23T11:13:37.615-04:00Here those cartels are the healthcare systems owne...<i>Here those cartels are the healthcare systems owned and operated by the academe.... </i><br /><br />Insurance companies in a field that is a public good and natural monopoly, as shown by every other developed country in comparison with the US.Tom Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08454222098667643650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-7463048750031840402017-05-23T11:10:13.877-04:002017-05-23T11:10:13.877-04:00"There are many people that don't want th...<i>"There are many people that don't want the public to understand this."<br /><br />Stated again with absolutely no evidence....</i><br /><br />Paul Krugman to Bernard Lietaer: "Never touch the money system!"<br />https://youtu.be/Q6nL9elK0EY<br /><br />Paul Samuelson: The balanced budget myth<br />https://youtu.be/4_pasHodJ-8Tom Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08454222098667643650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-13271325688512453742017-05-23T08:32:54.254-04:002017-05-23T08:32:54.254-04:00Nah, they don't want the status quo to change,...Nah, they don't want the status quo to change, if they wanted they would have changed it long ago, because it's not rocket science (double the cost, half the service of the average developed nation, it's not a small difference to have figured it out by now after decades of building up inefficiencies).<br /><br />Is not that I don't understand your point Matt about scales, is that is not going to happen because there is no real interest in it happening, and regardless if Trump is onboard with that he won't accomplish it (politically he is on life support, as he failed to purge the internal opposition and never had much of a back up anyway) as he cannot do it by mandate and overrule Congress (well he can try something weird, and will be the last thing he does).<br /><br />Ask any lobbyist who works in this sector for what they want, pretty sure they want the status quo to continue. Even if it did make sense financially for them (which doesn't), sheer laziness and the conservative nature of business would reject any serious change probably.Ignaciohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16082008115484199316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-89665766492377987002017-05-23T08:24:42.184-04:002017-05-23T08:24:42.184-04:00"Single payer!" is an absolute cave in t...<i>"Single payer!" is an absolute cave in to these academic monopolies who are imo too stupid to come up with a price they would have to commit to...</i><br /><br />Prices are set by the middlemen - the insurers and their diagnostic codes - what they "allow". Which keeps going down to rack up their profit. Meanwhile the providers keep raising rates to compensate. Look at a bill, payments are running about 15% of charges. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Narrow, non-competitive "networks" (monopolized markets), for-profit vs. for-health systems, etc., etc.<br /><br />I need a hernia repair and nobody can tell me what it will cost. I'm the meat in the sandwich.Noah Wayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12012500819097539976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-4553699903044982582017-05-23T08:22:44.108-04:002017-05-23T08:22:44.108-04:00Those costs are a legitimate cost created in the b...Those costs are a legitimate cost created in the business process we have in place... <br /><br />To get rid of them you have to change the business process by establishing scale and guarantees...<br /><br />This is imo what Trump is attempting to do with the monthly advanced tax credits... i.e. create scale and guarantees...Matt Frankohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11978352335097260145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-37421691499301112762017-05-23T08:17:25.942-04:002017-05-23T08:17:25.942-04:00Somebody has to be paid to code in all of this inf...Somebody has to be paid to code in all of this information.... and it is a LEGITIMATE COST incompetent lefties....Matt Frankohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11978352335097260145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-72296759746679591732017-05-23T08:15:36.600-04:002017-05-23T08:15:36.600-04:00Here:
http://www.medtronic.com/content/dam/covidi...Here:<br /><br />http://www.medtronic.com/content/dam/covidien/library/us/en/services-support/reimbursement/reimbursement-coding-guide-wound-care-supplies.pdf<br /><br />Code A6196 if less than 16"^2Matt Frankohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11978352335097260145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-16322059581007973872017-05-23T08:13:52.931-04:002017-05-23T08:13:52.931-04:00Yes, but you have to actually eliminate those cost...Yes, but you have to actually eliminate those costs (and others). Those are not costs generated OUTSIDE of the HC sector that then they are passing to you by extension, they are generated BY the HC sector to charge you more money. I'm sure the HC/insurance, etc. is not on board with it, as those costs to the public are part of their profits.<br /><br />I'm just saying you are dreaming if you think you can get that shit done without destroying lobbyists. Anything that hurts the industry bottom line will never pass on Congress unless there is enough pressure from the people to do it. The other party (the HC industry) has nothing to lose by blocking the whole thing with their bought out puppets in DC as long as the population keeps putting the puppets there.Ignaciohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16082008115484199316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-13959442375161837732017-05-23T08:08:36.246-04:002017-05-23T08:08:36.246-04:00The incompetent left looks at those administrative...The incompetent left looks at those administrative costs and immediately thinks they are illegitimate.... because they are too stupid to figure out what is going on... Matt Frankohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11978352335097260145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-58767343749352686522017-05-23T08:02:08.113-04:002017-05-23T08:02:08.113-04:00"administrative costs are like 25-50% higher ..."administrative costs are like 25-50% higher than other nations, that's a lot of money."<br /><br />They still are COSTS....and legitimate costs when you have an insurance type of approach where there is no scale or guarantees... the providers have to submit itemized claims literally down to the individual bandaids (dressings)...<br /><br />You can eliminate those costs with scale and guarantees... and STILL make a ton of munnie<br /><br />The guy who sells Trump 100,000 guaranteed bars of soap at a time for a very low unit price STILL makes a ton of munnie...<br /><br />Matt Frankohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11978352335097260145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-52817302178626689102017-05-23T07:52:26.587-04:002017-05-23T07:52:26.587-04:00I vote for healthcare slaves....I vote for healthcare slaves....Matt Frankohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11978352335097260145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-78187629123499707892017-05-23T07:51:30.062-04:002017-05-23T07:51:30.062-04:00"It would create a new single-payer program c..."It would create a new single-payer program called AmeriCare that would take on everyone ensured by Medicaid and SCHIP, and would automatically enroll all children at birth. It would pay the same rates to providers as Medicare, meaning it’d be considerably less generous to doctors and hospitals than private insurers.”<br /><br />Maybe we could just make the providers slaves?Matt Frankohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11978352335097260145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-31872478409038381712017-05-23T07:46:05.006-04:002017-05-23T07:46:05.006-04:00I think they won't "commit to less",...I think they won't "commit to less", they need to keep their outrageous average salaries in everyone involved in the industry, that's money come out of your pockets guys. Directly or indirectly. The healthcare industry seems to be structured there as a winner-take-all zero-sum industry to extract as much money from the public as possible (they probably learned their lessons in the business schools, by economists and other hacks selling the whole "greed is good" shit). That's why they won't "come up with a price", they know the public would say FU if they ask for their stupid average salaries.<br /><br />The whole HC industry in the USA is more or less 100% more inefficient than rest of the developed world, you can't have universal HC with those prices. You have to purge a lot of the inefficiencies as well as the privileges. For instance, administrative costs are like 25-50% higher than other nations, that's a lot of money.<br /><br />What Democratic Californians (and by extension other states) want is probably squaring the circle: keep the extractive nature and structure of the industry as it without changing the status quo, while providing service for everyone. Well, grow up, it's not going to happen.<br /><br />You want universal healthcare? Get money out of politics first or else. being 'or else' just keep going down the rabbit hole of a dysfunctional system. The "sovietization" of the USA was never more apt than now, you guys are heading there fast and cannot even see it (not much better over here either unfortunately with the clown-fiesta in Berlin/Frankfurt and Brussels).<br />Ignaciohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16082008115484199316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-14398369788213838762017-05-23T07:27:57.307-04:002017-05-23T07:27:57.307-04:00"Privileged cartels"
Here those cartels..."Privileged cartels"<br /><br />Here those cartels are the healthcare systems owned and operated by the academe.... <br /><br />"Single payer!" is an absolute cave in to these academic monopolies who are imo too stupid to come up with a price they would have to commit to...<br />Matt Frankohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11978352335097260145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2761684730989137546.post-42517706285132087012017-05-23T07:22:46.435-04:002017-05-23T07:22:46.435-04:00"There are many people that don't want th..."There are many people that don't want the public to understand this."<br /><br />Stated again with absolutely no evidence.... "neo liberal conspiracy!" <br /><br />I'll tell you what there is though: "There are many people that DO want the public to understand this."<br /><br />And there IS evidence they are failing miserably....Matt Frankohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11978352335097260145noreply@blogger.com