An economics, investment, trading and policy blog with a focus on Modern Monetary Theory (MMT). We seek the truth, avoid the mainstream and are virulently anti-neoliberalism.
I'm perfectly fine if that is the dimwitted level of your critique of free people engaged in free exchange. Implicit in your nasty and violent worldview is the assumption that if only a SWAT team showed up with an economic plan to force those guys to do whatever it is SWAT teams force people to do, then things would be fine.
The "Next Day" frame on makes no sense. If the fisherman now catches fish today he has currency he can buy hut building services or coconuts. If the hut building guy and coconut guy are too lazy to work now that "real demand" has been created, how is artificail demand ("stimulus") going to work? The only reason they would relax is because they would know there is a backstop for them. Is someone going to step in and "borrow" the surplus fish caught that day and "give" it to the hut builder and coconut gatherer? Seems like that would delay the recovery. Maybe I am reading too much into this cartoon in the same way Mike is reading too little (I say that with all due respect---I love this blog).
"With Barack Obama, of his own initiative, slated to begin cutting government expenditures in 2013 (should he be re-elected), a number of his liberal and progressive supporters have taken to granting that the Federal budget ‘crisis,’ to which he purports to be responding, is real. In fact, the ‘debate’ was preceded by forty years of policies designed to systematically de-fund government, reduce labor to a beggar class and to gut any public programs that don’t specifically and directly make the rich richer. To pretend that this is other than a manufactured ‘crisis’ designed to shift more public resources to the already rich is to misread history."
Law enforcement goes after middle class and lower, notwithstanding austerians griping.
Ha ha!Thank´s Tom!Great comic and so true.Well after read Rob Roddis no one wan´t to join him on a fishin tour i guess :)!We know how it could end.But wait, maybee that Major-Freedom ???
I would point out also that fish is a perishable commodity... without some form of preservation (perhaps salt) it would not make very good "money".
Also, all of the agents in the cartoon claim: "I AM IN CHARGE, AND I OWN...", by what authority can they make these claims?
Bob, what if you were there and YOU also wanted to be "in charge of and own the ocean" ?
Would a VIOLENT contest of physical force ensue? Or just would you arm-wrestle for the ocean? Or flip a coin? Rock paper scissors? Or would you simply surrender to this authoritative claim by your peer?
I think to not be a hypocrite, you would have to surrender...
"Bob, what if you were there and YOU also wanted to be "in charge of and own the ocean" ?
Would a VIOLENT contest of physical force ensue? Or just would you arm-wrestle for the ocean? Or flip a coin? Rock paper scissors? Or would you simply surrender to this authoritative claim by your peer?"
I think Bob would attack the ocean owner viciously and we'd need a SWAT team just to calm him down to let the "free market" work. :) So one could say that capitalism needs a nanny state to protect the "free market" from guys like Bob. How would It play out without SWAT team? No one really knows. May be Somalia or something like that.
Right... I dont see how the system can so to speak "get started" unless some sort of threat of violence is enforced or a large part of the population surrenders to authority...
Quote from Violence Bob Roddis: Implicit in your nasty and violent worldview is the assumption that if only a SWAT team showed up with an economic plan to force those guys to do whatever it is SWAT teams force people to do, then things would be fine."
No, Bob, our view is that the Hut Fixing Guy and Coconut Guy should agree to a fiat IOU from the Fish guy and continue trade under a regulated system.
You violence loving Rothbardian terrorists are the ones who want to create a SWAT team to make sure that only commodity backed notes are traded rather than have what an "artificial boom" created by credit expansion unbacked by current production or if there is a default you would want to use the SWAT to enslave the Fish Guy rather than allowing a breach of contract.
Rather than allowing trade on a fiat credit basis you rely on violence to enforce claims against the Fish Guy if he fails to deliver even if the continuation of trade makes everyone better if the debt was forgiven.
"Voluntary Contacts" are the basis of economic violence against free people and you slavertarian types can't wait to stick you guns in the faces of those you would have enslaved rather than allow a debt to go unpaid.
Freedom is about having a society respecting the human individual enough to make sure that some contracts aren't allowed so to preserve their dignity and sacred value as a human beings. Slavery begins when property, money, and any other idols of the market are put in front of human dignity.
We not only have the right to use force against such profane blasphemies but it our sacred duty to drive the such Gold changers and their Mammon worshiping ilk from the temple of our civilization.
The courage to use violence against false idols of property and material possession when the pursuit of such is destroying the sacredness of our very humanity is the basis of all morality and virtue.
Do what Jesus did when the "freedom of the market" intruded on the sacred.
I'm taking it to the next level. In exchange for access to my ocean, the other two guys can pay me in fish. Since they don't have the fish to pay me with, I'll be generous and let them borrow against their coconut and hut making operations. With interest.
Before long I'll own the whole island and spend my days lounging on the beach collecting rents. Serfs up!.
I'm perfectly fine if that is the dimwitted level of your critique of free people engaged in free exchange. Implicit in your nasty and violent worldview is the assumption that if only a SWAT team showed up with an economic plan to force those guys to do whatever it is SWAT teams force people to do, then things would be fine.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe "Next Day" frame on makes no sense. If the fisherman now catches fish today he has currency he can buy hut building services or coconuts. If the hut building guy and coconut guy are too lazy to work now that "real demand" has been created, how is artificail demand ("stimulus") going to work? The only reason they would relax is because they would know there is a backstop for them. Is someone going to step in and "borrow" the surplus fish caught that day and "give" it to the hut builder and coconut gatherer? Seems like that would delay the recovery. Maybe I am reading too much into this cartoon in the same way Mike is reading too little (I say that with all due respect---I love this blog).
ReplyDeleteAusterian (& neo-liberal) Bob's hypocritical "non-violent" Dream-world:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.counterpunch.org/2012/08/03/say-goodbye-to-social-security/
"With Barack Obama, of his own initiative, slated to begin cutting government expenditures in 2013 (should he be re-elected), a number of his liberal and progressive supporters have taken to granting that the Federal budget ‘crisis,’ to which he purports to be responding, is real. In fact, the ‘debate’ was preceded by forty years of policies designed to systematically de-fund government, reduce labor to a beggar class and to gut any public programs that don’t specifically and directly make the rich richer. To pretend that this is other than a manufactured ‘crisis’ designed to shift more public resources to the already rich is to misread history."
Law enforcement goes after middle class and lower, notwithstanding austerians griping.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/08/03/when-police-attack/
Ha ha!Thank´s Tom!Great comic and so true.Well after read Rob Roddis no
ReplyDeleteone wan´t to join him on a fishin tour i guess :)!We know how it could end.But wait, maybee that Major-Freedom ???
I would point out also that fish is a perishable commodity... without some form of preservation (perhaps salt) it would not make very good "money".
ReplyDeleteAlso, all of the agents in the cartoon claim: "I AM IN CHARGE, AND I OWN...", by what authority can they make these claims?
Bob, what if you were there and YOU also wanted to be "in charge of and own the ocean" ?
Would a VIOLENT contest of physical force ensue? Or just would you arm-wrestle for the ocean? Or flip a coin? Rock paper scissors? Or would you simply surrender to this authoritative claim by your peer?
I think to not be a hypocrite, you would have to surrender...
Rsp,
"Bob, what if you were there and YOU also wanted to be "in charge of and own the ocean" ?
ReplyDeleteWould a VIOLENT contest of physical force ensue? Or just would you arm-wrestle for the ocean? Or flip a coin? Rock paper scissors? Or would you simply surrender to this authoritative claim by your peer?"
I think Bob would attack the ocean owner viciously and we'd need a SWAT team just to calm him down to let the "free market" work. :)
So one could say that capitalism needs a nanny state to protect the "free market" from guys like Bob.
How would It play out without SWAT team? No one really knows. May be Somalia or something like that.
money,
ReplyDeleteRight... I dont see how the system can so to speak "get started" unless some sort of threat of violence is enforced or a large part of the population surrenders to authority...
Rsp,
Quote from Violence Bob Roddis: Implicit in your nasty and violent worldview is the assumption that if only a SWAT team showed up with an economic plan to force those guys to do whatever it is SWAT teams force people to do, then things would be fine."
ReplyDeleteNo, Bob, our view is that the Hut Fixing Guy and Coconut Guy should agree to a fiat IOU from the Fish guy and continue trade under a regulated system.
You violence loving Rothbardian terrorists are the ones who want to create a SWAT team to make sure that only commodity backed notes are traded rather than have what an "artificial boom" created by credit expansion unbacked by current production or if there is a default you would want to use the SWAT to enslave the Fish Guy rather than allowing a breach of contract.
Rather than allowing trade on a fiat credit basis you rely on violence to enforce claims against the Fish Guy if he fails to deliver even if the continuation of trade makes everyone better if the debt was forgiven.
"Voluntary Contacts" are the basis of economic violence against free people and you slavertarian types can't wait to stick you guns in the faces of those you would have enslaved rather than allow a debt to go unpaid.
Freedom is about having a society respecting the human individual enough to make sure that some contracts aren't allowed so to preserve their dignity and sacred value as a human beings. Slavery begins when property, money, and any other idols of the market are put in front of human dignity.
We not only have the right to use force against such profane blasphemies but it our sacred duty to drive the such Gold changers and their Mammon worshiping ilk from the temple of our civilization.
The courage to use violence against false idols of property and material possession when the pursuit of such is destroying the sacredness of our very humanity is the basis of all morality and virtue.
Do what Jesus did when the "freedom of the market" intruded on the sacred.
I'm taking it to the next level. In exchange for access to my ocean, the other two guys can pay me in fish. Since they don't have the fish to pay me with, I'll be generous and let them borrow against their coconut and hut making operations. With interest.
ReplyDeleteBefore long I'll own the whole island and spend my days lounging on the beach collecting rents. Serfs up!.