Graph below of current US corporate profits, corporate profits net of taxes, and dividends for the last couple of years which I made at the BEA site here.
Currently running a bit over $1.5T equivalent annually after taxes. That's a lot of "money" corporations are getting from somewhere...
Dividends are un-Biblical* (since they are profit taking) and are also stupid humanly speaking since the point of a common stock company is to consolidate capital for economies of scale - not dissipate it. Also, the use of common stock itself as money eliminates the need for fiat except, of course, to pay taxes with.
ReplyDelete*An exception would be the needed fiat for stock holders to pay the taxes that result from their stock ownership with.
F,
ReplyDeleteNot to blow your mind but what if they pay the dividends with common stock?
rsp,
In that case, they are not dividends but merely stock-splits and perfectly acceptable since they do not distribute company assets. Stock-splits are useful to keep the per share price from increasing while increasing the total volume of shares so as to increase popularity.
ReplyDeleteGet rid of the government-backed counterfeiting cartel and those who "share" the best will prosper.
ReplyDeleteGot a problem with that?
Your blind faith in this ridiculous idea that common stock can serve all monetary purposes is getting extremely tedious.
ReplyDeleteCommon stock CANNOT serve as government money since the government must, for ethical reasons, accept only its own (inexpensive) fiat for taxes and fees.
ReplyDeleteI would say your insults are getting tedious but they illustrate that you've got no arguments to use instead so carry on!
And I'm not claiming that common stock would necessarily be widely used as a private money form.
ReplyDeleteBut there is no excuse for a government-backed credit cartel, since common stock is an ETHICAL form of endogenous money creation that requires no government privileges.
F,
ReplyDelete"14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple of the city of Thyatira, revering God, heard, whose heart the Lord opens up to heed what is spoken by Paul..." Acts 16:14
What did she heed from Paul? To stop accepting state currency when she sold her purple items? Paul told her to set up a common stock scheme and divy up some shares in her purple items company?
C'mon...
rsp,
Franko,
ReplyDeleteYou're being an idiot at best. I've never said that fiat could not be voluntarily used for private debts too. Or that there was anything wrong with so using it.
What I object to is what is essentially a government-backed counterfeiting cartel in our so-called "free market economy."
can you refer me to any serious texts on the idea of using common stock as money? Apart from the bible.
ReplyDeleteI'm not aware of any such books but surely money is not yet generally understood, is it? When we still have gold-bugs running around? When we still have banker-induced financial crisis?
ReplyDeleteBut re the Bible:
“Have you understood all these things?” They *said to Him, “Yes.” And Jesus said to them, “Therefore every scribe who has become a disciple of the kingdom of heaven is like a head of a household, who brings out of his treasure things new and old.” Matthew 13:51-52 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
F,
ReplyDeleteI dont see how we can avoid lending and the use of fiscal agents if we are operating a state currency system...
Matthew who you quote there was a "tax collector" or "fiscal agent" if you will of either Herod or Caesar.... perhaps both (it doesnt say)... maybe he also operated a "money lending" operation too as part of that thing...
The system we have today would work just fine, as is, if we have the right people running it...
rsp,
I dont see how we can avoid lending and the use of fiscal agents if we are operating a state currency system... Franko
ReplyDeleteThe monetary sovereign need only:
1) Spend its fiat into existence.
2) Tax some of that fiat out of existence.
Where is the need of lending? There is none!
As for "fiscal agents" there is no need for those either since government can impose unavoidable taxes that do not depend on a government-enforced monopoly money supply for private debts for their collection.
monopoly on private
The system we have today would work just fine, as is, if we have the right people running it...
ReplyDeleteFranko
When it comes to stealing purchasing power, no one is "creditworthy!!!"
Some "Christian" you are. You literally prefer stealing over sharing!
Real World Economics Review
ReplyDeleteincome inequality, upward income redistribution Income inequalities in 2007 compared to latest available year in 26 countries
Income inequalities in 2007 compared to latest available year in 26 countries
June 27, 2013 David F. Rucci
http://rwer.wordpress.com/2013/06/27/income-inequalities-in-2007-compared-to-latest-available-year-in-26-countries/
http://anticap.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/ilo-inequality.jpg
"Some "Christian" you are. You literally prefer stealing over sharing!"
ReplyDeleteWhat is it with people like you and Bob Roddis?
"I'm not aware of any such books but surely money is not yet generally understood, is it?"
ReplyDeleteYeah, no one "understands". Only F. Beard "understands".
That bible quote is irrelevant as far as I can see.
F,
ReplyDeletePaul only directed the early believers to "share" so as to avoid participation in the activities of the pagan temples thru which much of the economic surplus was distributed in that society....
that is all gone from the scene now....
we have nominal Christians whom we vote into positions of authority today who are free to form public policy as the spirit guides them...
How do you get a house then? and a car? Without 'lending'?
Free house and car? (btw make mine a free Corvette!)
Or share our houses and cars?
Whaaaaaat????
All banks do (or more accurately today DID...) aside from acting as fiscal agents, is lend against property and vehicles that are already constructed or manufactured by non-banks so they can get paid...
Now its just down to vehicles looks like and they will probably f that up soon ... if you dont like this you can save huge balances of currency by purchasing a quality used/off-lease vehicle today with a few 10's of thousands of miles on it...
Banks no longer lend for residential home purchases... or student loans... these morons spayed and neutered themselves against those activities several years ago while "dancing while the music was playing" instead of acting as appropriate corporate stewards...
Bank credit hasnt risen in 5 years. Looks like they may be finished as lenders. They are fee based organizations now... they originate govt loans and collect an origination fee to do the paperwork... good work if you can get it..
NIM on what they still have out is collapsing at banks due to ZIRP and will continue to do so as long as moron monetarists run the Fed...
Total Financials (which is way more than just banks) comprise under 15% of the corporate profits identified in the graphs above and this is falling as NIM continues to fall under ZIRP...
Corporate profits derive from non-financial activities for the most part these days... and you can see they pay out about half of the after tax profits as dividends to the retirement funds that own most of the shares so the pensioners can eat and have heat... if you dont have a pension you are out of luck too bad for you...
that said, perhaps to your main point all of this can be operated more justly, you get no argument from me there...
But your going to the Hebrew scriptures to pick out random tid-bits for specific rules-based implementation for us today, thinking somehow this will 'make things better' today is missing the mark imo sorry...
All we humans have for ourselves today is our authority (which most sadly still are blind to) and the fruit of the spirit (which ultimately we dont control..)
Hang in there F Beard... rsp,
What is it with people like you and Bob Roddis? y
ReplyDeleteWell, I presume we both hate the current crooked, unstable money system that killed 50-65 million in WWII alone.
You?
But unlike Bob and the Austrians, I don't love usury.
You?
Or gold.
ReplyDeleteInstead, I think "sharing" is the way to go.
What? You did not learn that in kindergarten?
How do you get a house then? and a car? Without 'lending'? y
ReplyDeleteWith the equity stolen from us by the banks and which currently exists as bogus debt instead!
Why do you keep forgetting the universal bailout with new fiat that Steve Keen advocates?
Huh? If you had read the Old Testament you'd know that thievery requires RESTITUTION!
Bank credit hasnt risen in 5 years. Franko
ReplyDeleteBut the debt remains!
Looks like they may be finished as lenders. Franko
So the parasites die with the host. Big deal. Other parasites will arise unless we fundamentally rethink money along ethical grounds.
Yeah, no one "understands". Only F. Beard "understands". y
ReplyDeleteEven the best of you have not been able to refute the idea of common stock as money. Instead, I've heard only the lamest of counter arguments and in your case, insults.
I don't claim to be special but this I have done: I have read the entire Bible (exception: I have glossed construction details since they bore me) and taken it seriously wrt economics.
Make that "Instead, I've heard only lame counter arguments ...", please. The arguments were the best that could be summoned, I suppose, but were still lame.
ReplyDeleteOh, I see I attributed a quote from Franko to "y".
ReplyDeleteSorry, y.
F,
ReplyDeleteWe need to rethink "money" along authoritarian grounds imo...
Most libertarians do not like this approach...
Its time to take the training wheels off imo... see what happens...
(FD: I am NOT libertarian in any way shape or form...)
rsp,
F Beard, using the bible for anything not to do with morality tales is foolish. The bible is a work of fiction written by people 1500 plus years ago. Its just as nonsensical to analyze the economy using the the fictional bible as it to use the fictional odyssey
ReplyDelete"the current crooked, unstable money system that killed 50-65 million in WWII alone"
ReplyDeleteYou're insane! Seriously.
"even the best of you have not been able to refute the idea of common stock as money".
You've never been able to put forward a coherent argument for "common stock as money"! It's patently obvious that your idea - note YOUR idea, an idea you made up inside your head and that as far as I'm aware NO ONE else believes in - is ridiculous. For some reason perfectly simple and reasonable explanations for why your idea is ridiculous just bounce right off your skull.
You're the one that insults everyone for not believing in the nonsensical ideas you come up with. According to you anyone who doesn't believe in your nonsensical "common stock as money" fantasy is some sort of immoral person who "doesn't like to share" or some such crap.
I thought you were ok until you revealed yourself to be like Bob Roddis, just with different beliefs.
And the endless repetition of the same phrases over and over and over and over again is just too much.
More insults y, and no arguments.
ReplyDeleteBack to basics then. Look at a balance sheet: Assets are on the left, Equity and Liabilities are on the right. Now tell me again why money can only be a Liability and not Equity when BOTH are backed by Assets?
As for WWII: Oops! I see the Great Depression has been removed as a major cause of WWII from WIKI. But no matter. Liars won't prosper unless they like swimming in a Lake of Fire FOREVER!
As for the cause of the Great Depression:
In a speech on Milton Friedman's ninetieth birthday (November 8, 2002), Bernanke said, "Let me end my talk by abusing slightly my status as an official representative of the Federal Reserve. I would like to say to Milton and Anna [Schwartz, Friedman's coauthor]: Regarding the Great Depression. You're right, we did it. We're very sorry. But thanks to you, we won't do it again."[44] from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Bernanke
I hope you have a good memory, y, cause I get weary of repeating some times.
We need to rethink "money" along authoritarian grounds imo... Franko
ReplyDeleteYou mean ala "666?"
I thought you at least read the New Testament?!
"no arguments"
ReplyDeleteWe've been over your arguments but you seem to have no recollection of that.
Do you even own any stocks or is all this just intellectual speculation on your behalf?
I have some, and I have no desire to part with them the next time I go shopping for groceries.
I have some, and I have no desire to part with them the next time I go shopping for groceries. y
ReplyDeleteOf course you don't! Why "share" if one can legally steal instead? It would be a competitive disadvantage to do the right thing!
I suppose Southern slave owners faced the same dilemma. Interestingly, they moved to a sharecropping alternative after the Civil War.
do you own any stocks or shares?
ReplyDeleteF,
ReplyDeleteYou're over-thinking all of this....
This is not that hard... we can use our monetary/bank/accounting system to monitor outcomes and if we see that the results are unjust, we can simply make adjustments within the system as we see fit... this can happen right now even with the system we already have...
rsp,
Franko,
ReplyDelete1) The Bible predicts that the money system will one day be used AGAINST Christians.
2) God does not require thievery to advance His Kingdom.
and
ReplyDelete3) if you disagree with me you will burn in a Lake of Fire FOREVER!
F.,
ReplyDeleteI'll take my chances! ;)
rsp,
My warning is that you may be helping to create such a money system! And will be held accountable for doing so! By God!
ReplyDeleteSo "chances" does not really apply, now does it?
Sorry, I meant y 'I'll take my chances' ;)
ReplyDeleteF,
That might have been true under the metals... if it really says that, (btw where do you see that??) then I would think that probably prophesied the near 2,000 year fiasco known as the "gold standard"... that metallic regime was certainly used against us for sure... everybody killing each other just to get a hold of those metals... what a moron-fest...
We've now been able to throw that yoke looks like for the first time in almost 2,000 years...
So we have that going for us now... which is nice...
rsp,