My old buddy Stevie still up to making a nice living by spewing propaganda he knows is at best misleading and subversive.
Serious call out and well-deserved smackdown.
We frequently argue here at MNE over whether neoliberals are ignorant or disingenuous. Warren gives good reason to prefer the latter explanation in this case.
Steve Moore’s WSJ piece
Warren Mosler
Arent republicans wanting to call off the sequester too?
ReplyDeleteWhy, if its such a successful strategy?
Big Microsoft is getting rid of their currency called Points and going back to state currency.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.theverge.com/2013/8/9/4607312/xbox-360-dropping-microsoft-points-for-real-currency
"Starting with the next Xbox 360 system update, gamers will no longer have to deal with the much-maligned Microsoft Points system that's long been used to facilitate digital downloads. Microsoft hasn't announced when that update is coming, but the software has been in a public testing phase for over a month now. As on the Xbox One, Points will be replaced a much simpler system: gamers' local currencies. "
Don't think I can recall Warren getting that mad at someone.
ReplyDeleteI dont see how Warren can so to speak "read Moore's mind" to be able to determine whether Moore REALLY understood what Warren was trying to explain to him years ago...
ReplyDeleteSame with the story about Rumsfeld in the steam room, perhaps Rumsfeld was just indicating some sort of agreement to "get rid of" Warren faster...
Here is Moore today:
"Entitlement reforms will come when liberals realize that the unhappy alternative is to allow every program they cherish to keep shrinking."
So we can see here that Moore still thinks we have a fiscally UN-sustainable situation just like all the "Fix the Debt" people and the Peterson people, etc.. and we need "entitlement reform" so-called to head off their imagined problem...
I still don't believe that these "neo-liberals" understand (mathematically) how our current arrangements really operate... so they can only work in the semantic realm like Moore does here....
How do you explain Noah Smith at Noahpinion the physicist turned economist? He doenst understand any of this... He doenst seem like he has a right wing ax to grind...
I think we who have somehow achieved an accurate mathematical understanding of current operations perhaps are significantly underestimating how difficult this is for some people who are more semantically oriented than math oriented...
I see both a cognitive issue (mathematics) and an ideological issue (libertarianism) teaming up here in many people (probably like Moore here) to present an almost insurmountable task for us who are trying to explain these operations with the intention of actually getting thru to a WIDE audience...
If the person 1. dosent have the maths, and 2. is a libertarian, this is like a 10 foot thick reinforced concrete wall we are trying to get thru imo...
rsp,
Now Warren has another take-down of two other morons at the NYT... Hubbard and Kane...
ReplyDeleteHere is Hubbard and Kane:
"Adm. Mike Mullen, at the time the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that debt was the “single biggest threat to our national security” — not some rogue nation, or terrorist group, but debt. What makes the threat of exploding debt especially dangerous is that it’s not like a faucet that can be easily turned down. "
Economists taking the word of a Navy Admiral... "so much for the Academe of Economics, let's cite the expertise of a Navy Admiral instead!"
Wait there's more:
"For anyone willing to question authority, it gets worse.... "
Yes! ... it does for you libertarian morons!
(I can't even make this up! I don't have to!...LOL!)
More:
"Deficits create a “fiscal illusion” that public goods and transfer payments are less expensive than they are. "
Yes its "an illusion" when you dont understand it morons! LOL!
I keep trying to make the point: They are all libertarian MORONS!
They themselves make my best arguments for me!
Just read their own f-ing words to see how stupid they are!
rsp,
From Moore's wiki page:
ReplyDelete"He attended Saints Faith Hope & Charity School in Winnetka..."
Revealing...
(Again I am not making this up...)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Moore_(economist)
rsp,
Moore's probably a big supporter of Pope Francis big "charity" initiatives which just cover up/hide the real problems we face...
ReplyDeletersp,
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteGeez Matt, you are really pissed off. I love this nonsense about a General holding forth on economics.
ReplyDeleteOld buddies are overrated.
ReplyDeleteJon,
ReplyDeleteI'm not that pissed off, where Tom refers above to "ignorant or subversive?" I believe they are "ignorant"... and I often (try) to defend my position like this here...
They don't have the maths (they are semantics) and they remain in the dark via the semantics coming from the libertarian side...
They remain caught up thru the semantics of 'false metaphor' like we see here again from Hubbard and KANE (btw another REVEALING name coming in here I can't even make this up.. but I digress...)
Here they are: "What makes the threat of exploding debt especially dangerous is that it’s not like a faucet that can be easily turned down. "
False metaphor, it ALWAYS shows up.
These people do not have the maths to be able to see thru these false metaphors... so they just instead believe them and remain morons...
I've tracked this pattern of language (false metaphor) for years now and it ALWAYS shows up.
It is a POWERFUL semantic device to use on the non-mathematical among us... "govt is the same as a household", etc...
All you have to do with these people is drop a false metaphor on them and they stand down instantly... they have no alternative without the maths to be able to discern truth.
This technique appears in persuasive language/situations... Moore's piece is "preaching to the choir" there in the WSJ, its not a persuasive piece, so I'm not picking up a lot of false metaphor there...
Moore just is pointing out a political technique "inside baseball" that the debt morons can use to stay on top short term here... blah blah blah..
Hubbard and KANE (Can you believe it? LOL) however are in the NYT which is Democrat/Progressive rich territory so they are being PERSUASIVE there... THIS persuasive situation is where the false metaphor always shows up...
You'll see it if you watch closely, even if someone is starting to question these falsehoods slightly, for instance you'll see a semantic Progressive get a puzzled look on their face where you can see they start to think about it, at some level they can sense the false.... (they dont have the maths tho) and then WHAM! false metaphor appears dispensed from another moron and shuts the whole process down for them... it always goes down that way...
Looks like its a powerful semantic technique...
So you have some left person out there perhaps starting to question some of these falsehoods, doenst have the maths, picks up their trusty old NYT to read so they know what to think and then they read this here: "What makes the threat of exploding debt especially dangerous is that it’s not like a faucet that can be easily turned down."
Boom! They're done: "Oh yeah, what was I starting to think? That's right its like a 'faucet that cannot be turned down'... yeah that's right...."
And then they put the paper down and continue with their moron existence...
Always happens this way...
rsp,
I fail to see what bad metaphors have to do with lack of mathematical ability. MMT is first and foremost a conceptual framework - the 'math', if you choose to explore it, comes later.
ReplyDeleteIf you hate doing math, accurate metaphors can be used as a substitute. This is done all the time when addressing a general audience.
The question of knowingly or unknowingly spreading propaganda is of little concern to me - the damage done to the audience is the same.
Bob,
ReplyDeleteThese people have NO mathematical ability they are SEMANTICS... they 'navigate' thru life via WORDS not NUMBERS...
And its not "bad" metaphors I am trying to point out but rather "false" metaphors that the morons use...
For instance Dan wrote this the other day at his blog:
"Bank lending in the aggregate, responding to the demand for credit, continually creates new deposits for willing borrowers. That in turn means an expansion of broad money. This growth in bank deposits results in a greater net demand placed upon the payment system for interbank settlements. The assets banks use to settle those payments are primarily their deposit balances at the Federal Reserve banks. So realistically, the central bank must accommodate most of this independent private sector activity in order to maintain stable interest rates and facilitate the smooth functioning of the payments system. As a result, the central bank makes the corresponding changes to the monetary base required to achieve these goals."
They couldnt understand what Dan writes here mathematically in A MILLION YEARS...
rsp,
That example could be concisely expressed by a flowchart. Visual representations are often preferable to words or mathematics.
ReplyDeleteFor some people, hearing an explanation in person makes it easier for them to learn.
This ain't rocket science.
"We frequently argue here at MNE over whether neoliberals are ignorant or disingenuous."
ReplyDeleteTrust me, I know how it feels.
I had numerous discussions with Stephen Moore when I was still at Fox and I rebut Warren's claim that he secretly knows the truth and undestands such things as these government accounting identities. This guy is a pure ideologue and as Matt says, a moron, first class, I might add. I don't know why Warren insists on giving these guys so much credit, like when he tells them, "please come home." It's embarrassing.
ReplyDelete