Epic confrontation between Bill Gross and Mohammed El-Erian at Pimco (*Corrected)

Note: I am making a correction to this post. Pimco did not have a "terrible year." According to the firm it beat its index so one could say it simply had a bad year relative to past performance. In addition, the firm claims that outflows were due to "rotation." The main point of my post, however, is that Gross fundamentally misunderstood the fact that the funds to buy Treasuries come from government spending itself and he continues to mischaracterize the United States as a household that can run out of money.

I have extended an open invitation to Bill Gross to discuss these topics on my show that I do at the NYSE for Hard Assets Investor or, right here on Mike Norman Economics.

I've said for a long time that Bill Gross doesn't know what he is talking about. We've cited examples on this blog, like the now-infamous, "Who's gonna buy them now" comment that Gross tweeted back in 2011. With that comment the "Bond King" displayed to the world that he had no understanding of sovereign fiat money systems.

Gross went on to have a bad year relative to his past performance and we also predicted large capital outflows from his fund and that's exactly what happened.

And Gross wasn't the only one on the receiving end of our scorn. There was Mohammed El-Erian, the Pimco CEO and former IMF economist who spoke in riddles when it came to the economy, perhaps to hide his own ignorance.

Now there's a story out today in the Wall Street Journal about an epic internal clash between these two behemoths. To me it seems like a battle between two partners who basically ran their firm into the ground (maybe that's too harsh) or, we can say at least, damaged its Tiffany reputation.

Check this out from the WSJ piece:

Mr. Gross—by his own admission, a demanding boss—had long showed respect for Mr. El-Erian and indicated that the younger man eventually would take over the world's biggest bond firm. But one day last June, the two men squared off in front of more than a dozen colleagues amid disagreements about Mr. Gross's conduct, according to two people who were there.
"I have a 41-year track record of investing excellence," Mr. Gross told Mr. El-Erian, according to the two witnesses. "What do you have?"
"I'm tired of cleaning up your s—," Mr. El-Erian responded, referring to conduct by Mr. Gross that he felt was hurting Pimco, these two people recall.

Pretty uncivil if you ask me. And don't forget, this is a "white shoe" Wall Street firm. Anyone who's ever worked at a top of the line, white shoe, Wall Street firm, knows that discussions, conversations, indeed, even arguments, are all conducted in the most civil, low volume, non-confrontational manner that you can possibly imagine. You're NEVER going to see two co-CEOs out there trying to tear each other down in front of the hired help. If daggers are to be thrown they get thrown quietly, usually behind backs, but never EVER out in front for all to see. That's what makes this confrontation so amazing. They were really going off the rails.

I've long said that ever since Paul McCulley left Pimco in 2010 that was teh end of their dominance. McCulley was not only Pimco's brilliant and ecclectic chief economist, but he was also an MMT adherent. You can't say that about Gross.

I remember back in 2003, when I had Gross on my radio show, he brought up his now very well known, but incorrect, anaolgy of the United States as a household. When I asked him how he did not recognize the distinction between a currency user, like a household and a sovereign government that is a currency issuer he seemed baffled and even bothered by the question. He said to me, "At the end of the day, they're really the same."

That's the thing, Bill. They're not. They're just not.