The Russian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate has published a draft of the document "Economy in the context of globalization. Orthodox ethical view. " This document demonstrates the key positions of the Russian Church on a number of issues relating to the economy and international relations.…Not to be outdone by the pope.
Speaking of the pope:
Katehon (not the document): The unconditional support of state sovereignty against the transnational elite is a distinctive feature of the position of the Orthodox Church. This differs the Orthodox from Catholics, who are members of the globalist transnational centralized structure, in contrast to the Orthodox Churches, which are united in faith, but not administratively.…
This document is very important because it shows that the Russian Orthodox Church not only occupies a critical position in relation to the liberal globalization, but also offers a Christian alternative to globalization processes. While Catholics and most Protestant denominations have passionate humanist ideas, and in the best case, criticize globalization from the left or left-liberal positions, the Russian Orthodox Church advocate sovereignty and national identity. The most important aspect of the Orthodox critique of globalization is the idea of multipolarity and the destructiveness of modern Western civilization’s path.Where the two Churches agree is on distributism.
Well the guy says this:
ReplyDelete"When Orthodox people are in positions of authority and power, they are expected to follow Christ in those positions just as they follow Him in their private lives."
Which ok I am following him so far... then he goes on and says this:
"that the love of money has been and can easily be a root for all kinds of evil;"
And misses the whole f-ing thing bringing in this figure of speech !!!!
Hey Tom, what the Lord says to Israel here:
ReplyDelete"For you always have the poor with you, " Mat 26:11
What makes this statement conditionally true then, is the same thing that is really bugging/irritating you guys... its driving all of you atheist/agnostic guys in this all crazy... REEEAAALLY getting under all of you guys skins...
How do you get at it?
imo you dont get at it by any of the ways we have traditionally been using for centuries... such as "charity", "redistribution", etc... obviously NOT WORKING....
You have to try to figure out what EXACTLY is making the Lord's conditional statement to Israel there a true and accurate one... and then operate against THAT with 100% focus..
and btw the Lord or Paul never warned anyone about "denarius hegemony!!!"
ReplyDeleteSee the guy says here:
ReplyDelete"But simultaneously, and differing from the common ideal of a socialist economy, distributism is realistic enough to acknowledge that some are still going to be rich and some are still going to be poor. "
See these Distributism people think the Lords statement to Israel in Mat 26:11 is NON-conditional... they get caught up in the figure of speech "money!" just like the rest of them.. and they think that somehow operating against that in whatever moronic/stupid way they conjure up is somehow a big deal... this is true whether you are on the side of "charity" or whether you are on the side of "redistribution"... two sides of the same moron coin...
See here:
ReplyDelete"Distributism is not content, therefore, with great numbers of people owning their own homes or having shares in the stock market; they need to have real control over the land, farms, factories, and institutions that produce money and goods. "
Ultimately these people are morons too sorry....
No different than Hamilton here in Federalist 12:
ReplyDelete"Could that which procures a freer vent for the products of the earth, which furnishes new incitements to the cultivation of land, which is the most powerful instrument in increasing the quantity of money in a state"
OOOOOh boy!!! cultivation of the land creates the money!!!
I-D-I-O-T-S....
Oh.. wait.. but maybe... I forgot...
ReplyDeleteTom, maybe these Distributists are just a small cell in the vast elaborate clever all-powerful.... "neo-liberal conspiracy!!!!"... could be....
ReplyDeleteTaking that as a reason not to come to the aid of the poor is silly.
Read Matthew 25:31-46, which is much more pertinent.
"Could that which procures a freer vent for the products of the earth, which furnishes new incitements to the cultivation of land, which is the most powerful instrument in increasing the quantity of money in a state"
ReplyDeleteMakes perfect sense in a mercantilist system under gold. What is produced is traded for gold and the amount of gold is directly to proportional to the amount of money in the system. Quantity theory applies to the metals.
You have to try to figure out what EXACTLY is making the Lord's conditional statement to Israel there a true and accurate one... and then operate against THAT with 100% focus.. Franko
ReplyDeleteHowever, there will be no poor among you, since the Lord will surely bless you in the land which the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance to possess, if only you listen obediently to the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all this commandment which I am commanding you today. Deuteronomy 15:4-5 [bold]
But since the Lord anticipates the disobedience of some, apparently wrt to debt forgiveness and I daresay collecting interest from one's fellow countrymen contra Deuteronomy 23:19-20:
11 For the poor will never cease to be in the land; therefore I command you, saying, ‘You shall freely open your hand to your brother, to your needy and poor in your land.’ Deuteronomy 15:11
Therefore the poor are caused by the wicked but the righteous are to be gracious to the poor.
Question: Then why does the Christian Church tolerate the collecting of interest from fellow Christians? Where is the opposition of Christians to government subsidies for usury?
Btw, common stock, shares in equity, is a perfectly valid endogenous money form that does not require usury (any positive interest rate), dividends, government-provided deposit insurance, a lender of last resort nor any other government privileges. Moreover, common stock ALLOWS but does not REQUIRE growth as usury based money does. Plus it allows profit (good according to Scripture) without profit taking (wicked according to Scripture).
ReplyDeleteBut why share when government subsidies for private credit creation allow those with equity to legally steal instead?
"Rich" and "poor" have different meanings for the sages than in ordinary life. This true of all wisdom traditions, where there are traditionally four levels of meaning corresponding to the gross, subtle, causal and holistic. Jesus typically associates "rich" with holistic ("kingdom") and "poor" with those who haven't entered the kingdom. The meaning of "kingdom" is disputed. but generally it means non-ordinary, as in "My kingdom is not from this world." Jn 18:36*
ReplyDeleteFor you say, ‘I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing.’ You do not realize that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. Revelation 3:17
Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal; but store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. Mt 6:19-21
Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the air; they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? And can any of you by worrying add a single hour to your span of life? And why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they neither toil nor spin, yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not clothed like one of these. But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear?’ For it is the Gentiles who strive for all these things; and indeed your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But strive first for the kingdom of God[l] and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.
“So do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring worries of its own. Today’s trouble is enough for today. Mt 6:25-34
Don't worry. Be happy. — Meher Baba
* All quotes from NRSV
"Rich" and "poor" have different meanings for the sages than in ordinary life. Tom Hickey
ReplyDeleteSometimes but the Bible usually means those who are literally, ie. physically poor and physically rich, as any serious reader of it would know.
Word search rich+poor of NASB
Distinguishing the use in particular instances is what interpretation is about. Wrt scripture this is called exegesis and hermeneutics. These are based on inqury. Eisegesis is interpretation based on preconceived interpretation. It is based on ideology.
ReplyDeleteOne of the difficulties in interpretation is that something may have many meanings that are all apt on various ways. Often, the words of sages apply on the gross, subtle, causal and holistic simultaneously. Of course, this results in disputes over the "real" or intended meaning. That's why there are so many sects.
The richness of ordinary language and poetry is why these are fundamentally different from technical and formal use, where definition is stipulated in terms of specific rules and operations.
That's why there are so many sects. Tom Hickey
ReplyDeleteThere are many sects because people elevate their own doctrines over Scripture itself. Calvin, for example, couldn't abide the commandment about usury so he reasoned it away - rather lamely given a modern understanding of money such as that common stock is an endogenous money form that requires no interest. Southern Baptists found a way to legitimize keeping Christians slaves - when at most they could be kept for 6 years and well treated too.
People who remain in Scripture (meaning they continually both hear and heed it) are guaranteed to be true disciples of Christ and to "know the truth" and to be set free by it.
So I doubt there is much dispute at all between those who take Scripture seriously especially since it says "All that matters is faith working through love."
This is why there are sects:
ReplyDelete"19 For it must be that there are sects also among you, that those also who are qualified may be becoming apparent among you." 1 Cor 11:19
http://scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/1co11.pdf
The Distributism people are NOT qualified...
Andrew what about someone back then who couldnt have children? or had children and they were born with handicaps? got injured working? got robbed by outsiders? wiped out by predators? wiped out by crop disease? got an infection from a cut? were born handicapped?
People could become poor thru any of these other ways other than paying interest and btw people who have assured access to income can easily pay interest on loans for items that we deem as requiring financing... autos, houses, etc... and even then today you could always rent your housing and take Uber/Lyft for xport and not borrow munnie for those 2 big ticket items...
IF you take your lead from the Hebrew Scriptures you eventually have to deal with the stoning of sodomites/adulterers issue how do you deal with that? How do you pick and choose which parts of the Levitical Law you are going to enforce and which ones not?
None of that applies to we outside of Israel...
Here Christendumb in full swing even today:
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/281437-bible-verse-launches-gop-meeting-spurs-walkout
We dont need any f-ing laws written down on stone tablets or to be spoon fed by God or wtf, stone this person, stone that person, dont eat this, dont eat that, go here on this day, do this on that day, kill this animal sacrifice, tithe to these people, yada yada yada...:
"For whenever they of the nations that have no law, by nature may be doing that which the law demands, these, having no law, are a law to themselves,
15 who are displaying the action of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying together and their reckonings between one another, accusing or defending them," Rom 2:14
We DONT need the f-ing law....
"For whoever are of works of law are under a curse, for it is written that, Accursed is everyone who is not remaining in all things written in the scroll of the law to do them.
11 Now that in law no one is being justified with God is evident, for the just one by faith shall be living.
12 Now the law is not of faith, but who does them "shall be living in them."
13 Christ reclaims us from the curse of the law, becoming a curse for our sakes, for it is written, Accursed is everyone hanging on a pole," Gal 3
What the hell does the cross of Christ even mean if in light of that you keep pointing back to the law given to the moron Israelites anyways?????
We dont need ANY of that shit to be able to figure out how best to deal with each other in this present wicked era... we have been given complete and absolute authority to do the best we can for each other under present circumstances in whatever way via whatever policy we come up with...
"Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What will we eat?’ or ‘What will we drink?’ or ‘What will we wear?’ "
ReplyDeleteTom we have been given a surplus society since after the flood so this should not be surprising... we throw out more food than we eat... many people own several homes, have closets full of clothing that they dont even wear...
The problem remains distribution... but a distribution system has to be designed and step one is always to start with identifying CORRECTLY the SOURCE that is driving the system... this is textbook General Systems Theory 101...
and these moron Distributist people are NOT qualified for the job...
IF you take your lead from the Hebrew Scriptures you eventually have to deal with the stoning of sodomites/adulterers issue how do you deal with that? Franko
ReplyDeleteWhat part of taking the Old Testament seriously means ignoring the New Testament?
Indeed, it is those who disrespect the Old Testament who disrespect the New Testament too since the latter instructs:
"But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work." 2 Timothy 3:13-17 New American Standard Bible (NASB) [bold added]