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Wednesday, August 22, 2018
Public Enquiry - Russia and Syria preparing to retake Golan Heights, illegally occupied in 1967, from Israel?
I agreed with everything in this video. It's a shame the public never get to hear debates like this.
I have always suspected that the next world war will start over something comparatively small (like the Golan Heights) and will hemorrhage into a global conflict.
If Russia and Syria try to take back their territory, Israel will order its little bitch (the USA) to prevent it. The little American bitch will dare not disobey. The little bitch would rather suffer nuclear Armageddon than question its Israeli master.
The reason why most Americans boast about their "macho power" is that most Americans are eunuchs.
To be clear, Israel invaded and occupied the Golan Heights AFTER a ceasefire agreement AFTER the Six-Day War, not during it. Israel ignored the ceasefire declaration it was officially committed to and occupied the Golan Heights. Occupation during a war is bad enough and is by international law punishable with sanctions and war. Invasion and occupation AFTER a war is infinitely worse.
It is almost impossible to find anyone who gets this right. Almost all historians skim over this, simply writing "by the end of the war" Israel, which initiated the war, was in control of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, the Gaza Strip, the Sinai Peninsula and the Golan Heights. All of which is to miss the point with respect to the Golan Heights.
If all of this “end times!” Stuff in Christendom is false the way you would reveal that as falsehood might be to get Israel’s ass kicked pretty hard and then nothing happens... ... maybe not wiped out but perhaps just a decent ass kicking....
The Arabs want Israel erased from the map. Arab leaders may not as it's an excellent distraction from internal issues, but if the ball ever got rolling, no way they could restrain the masses. So nuclear fire it would be....
At least the resulting small Nuclear Winter [Nuclear Autumn?] would give us some more breathing space re Extreme Climate Change.
Matt: "...might be to get Israel’s ass kicked pretty hard and then nothing happens... ... maybe not wiped out but perhaps just a decent ass kicking...."
There would be no such thing. For Israel to get its "ass kicked" would mean the end of Israel as a state. This translates as very many dead. Also, Israel has let it be known that in such a scenario it is prepared to initiate the "Samson Option": launch all its nuclear weapons and bring the temple down on everyone's heads.
A better option is available: a viable two-state solution and Israel leaving all the occupied territory it has illegally conquered and annexed. To do so would require Washington to stop all military and financial aid to Israel. Israel would then evacuate all these territories in no time at all. It's called abiding by international law, and that's why everyone votes for it numerous times at the UN, but nothing happens because of Washington's veto. Anyone with any sense understands that Washington is no friend to Israel: it is putting it in tremendous danger. Israel can't hold out forever as an apartheid state which occupies its neighbours territories. And as US intelligence agencies have noted, Israel is toast when the oil in the Middle East runs out. Washington won't need it any longer to control the region because the region won't be worth a damn. All of this can be averted if international law can be enforced.
No, Nebris, it isn't a blood feud. The Arab states and the Palestinians have been offering Israel a reasonable and practical peace deal for decades, which Israel has rejected, although there was some wavering under Barak and at Taba. I don't think it is likely, but it could still happen. The Israelis could easily and profitably pull back if they tried to look at things rationally. The Palestinians of course are not "a totally weaponized people" whatever that means and the Israelis are the ones who are pushing the Palestinians, not vice versa.
I mean the evidence and reasoning for my paragraph above is overwhelming. But people - like Konrad or GLH on the other side for their unreasonable claims- have to actually have some interest in evidence and apply ordinary standards of reasoning to it, have to have some doubt ....
Calgacus, you're a naive fool. Remember that the Palestinians were once allied with the Nazis. Killing all the Jews in the Levant has always been their goal.
Like I said, you have to have some tiny doubt about convictions one has been imbibed. You have to actually look at the evidence occasionally and think about it. One can of course make a far better case for the Israeli goal being killing all the Palestinians. But that is of course not true.
As I said, the Palestinians and the Arab states have accepted Israel for decades; the conflict is essentially self-perpetuating, perpetuated by the military industrial complexes of Israel and the US and a self-reinforcing narrative that does not look at actual facts, crimes and peace offers. The basic Palestinian goal is just to have a decent life. It is forestalled by their irrational tormenters, Israel and its crazy US supporters of pouring gasoline on fires.
Thanks for calling me naive. These days, "naive" beliefs generally are true, since everyone else is so worried about being so smart that they outsmart themselves with nonsense.
Perhaps I should have gone with the more accurate 'useful idiot'...
There was a Two State Solution once upon a time, back in 1948. The Arabs instead chose to invade with the quite believable statement that they'd 'drive the Jews into the sea'. The Arab states may have backed off that after getting beaten so badly so many times, but it's still in their hearts. The PA and Hamas are merely their 'shock troops' now.
Yes, Israel is the Prussia of the Middle East. Yes, it uses brutal fascistic methods against its enemies. That is the unfortunate outcome of a century where half the world’s Jews were murdered and their only plot of land has been under attack since before it was born. In a war for survival, every atrocity is permitted.
On the other side, the Palestinians have been radicalized for a half dozen generations. All they know is 'War and Resistance'. Their leadership is utterly corrupt and venal. They have the second highest rate of Honor Killings per capita in the Muslim world. [Pakistan is #1] They are completely incapable of living peacefully with any Jew, let along the hated Israelis.
This will end in Fire and Death. The only question is one of timing...
It is difficult to reason people out of beliefs that they haven't been reasoned into, but ...
You could make an argument for 48 being a war for survival. OK. Well, since then the Arabs have accepted Israel. That was the opinion of Bernadotte after he met with the Arab leaders. Who assassinated that peace mediator? Israelis or Arabs?
Who was the leader of the Palestinian negotiating team in Madrid before the Oslo abortion. Haydar al-Shafi - who had supported the 1947 partition plan in 1947, because he was a clear sighted realist. The Palestinians are motivated by hatred? Why would they respect and appoint such a man? What about the Arab Peace Initiative? Every Arab state and the Palestinians hold out an olive branch. Full peace treaty and friendly relations.
The Arab states may have backed off that after getting beaten so badly so many times, but it's still in their hearts. The next war was 1956, which was entirely Israeli-French-British aggression. That was the US/Soviet/UN position at the time. Because it was really obviously true. The aggression almost always was and is in Israeli hearts, not the other side. Is there a clearer case of psychological projection?
From Wikipedia: "the human ego defends itself against unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others. For example, a person who is habitually rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude." And the Talmud: "Do not taunt your neighbor with the blemish you yourself have."
On the other side, the Palestinians have been radicalized for a half dozen generations. All they know is 'War and Resistance'.
All they know is that the Israelis are crazy. Again, psychological projection. Do not taunt your neighbor with the blemish you yourself have. Do not taunt your neighbor with the blemish you yourself have.... Is what the Palestinian psychotherapist should tell the Israeli patient.
They are completely incapable of living peacefully with any Jew, let along the hated Israelis.
No, if you look at the history, the more logical generalization is that Israelis are incapable of living peacefully with any Arab, let alone the hated Palestinians. This is NOT true, but that's what you can make evidence suggest. Not the opposite. Have I mentioned psychological projection?
Believe that things must end in Fire and Death.... Well, beware of what you wish for. You might get it.
I mean on this blog we have other cases of psychological projection. And there are prominent and sometimes insightful people who ignorantly make such statements that destroy their credibility (Paul Craig Roberts)
Germany suffered more after the war than the suffering it imposed during?
Yeah, right.
Germany attacked the USSR because the USSR was about to attack it?
Yeah, right.
The answer to such beliefs and the crazy idea that the Palestinians are attacking Israel and not vice versa is sweet reason (at $100/hour). Look at and weigh the evidence by normal standards. Hold beliefs that you are reasoned into. That Palestinian psychotherapist needs to hold group sessions. Too many patients.
I have always suspected that the next world war will start over something comparatively small (like the Golan Heights) and will hemorrhage into a global conflict.
ReplyDeleteIf Russia and Syria try to take back their territory, Israel will order its little bitch (the USA) to prevent it. The little American bitch will dare not disobey. The little bitch would rather suffer nuclear Armageddon than question its Israeli master.
The reason why most Americans boast about their "macho power" is that most Americans are eunuchs.
Israel has nukes. This is just bluster.
ReplyDeleteIsrael is barely afloat in a sea of enemies it created itself.
ReplyDeleteTo be clear, Israel invaded and occupied the Golan Heights AFTER a ceasefire agreement AFTER the Six-Day War, not during it. Israel ignored the ceasefire declaration it was officially committed to and occupied the Golan Heights. Occupation during a war is bad enough and is by international law punishable with sanctions and war. Invasion and occupation AFTER a war is infinitely worse.
ReplyDeleteIt is almost impossible to find anyone who gets this right. Almost all historians skim over this, simply writing "by the end of the war" Israel, which initiated the war, was in control of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, the Gaza Strip, the Sinai Peninsula and the Golan Heights. All of which is to miss the point with respect to the Golan Heights.
If all of this “end times!” Stuff in Christendom is false the way you would reveal that as falsehood might be to get Israel’s ass kicked pretty hard and then nothing happens... ... maybe not wiped out but perhaps just a decent ass kicking....
ReplyDeleteThe Arabs want Israel erased from the map. Arab leaders may not as it's an excellent distraction from internal issues, but if the ball ever got rolling, no way they could restrain the masses. So nuclear fire it would be....
ReplyDeleteAt least the resulting small Nuclear Winter [Nuclear Autumn?] would give us some more breathing space re Extreme Climate Change.
Matt: "...might be to get Israel’s ass kicked pretty hard and then nothing happens... ... maybe not wiped out but perhaps just a decent ass kicking...."
ReplyDeleteThere would be no such thing. For Israel to get its "ass kicked" would mean the end of Israel as a state. This translates as very many dead. Also, Israel has let it be known that in such a scenario it is prepared to initiate the "Samson Option": launch all its nuclear weapons and bring the temple down on everyone's heads.
A better option is available: a viable two-state solution and Israel leaving all the occupied territory it has illegally conquered and annexed. To do so would require Washington to stop all military and financial aid to Israel. Israel would then evacuate all these territories in no time at all. It's called abiding by international law, and that's why everyone votes for it numerous times at the UN, but nothing happens because of Washington's veto. Anyone with any sense understands that Washington is no friend to Israel: it is putting it in tremendous danger. Israel can't hold out forever as an apartheid state which occupies its neighbours territories. And as US intelligence agencies have noted, Israel is toast when the oil in the Middle East runs out. Washington won't need it any longer to control the region because the region won't be worth a damn. All of this can be averted if international law can be enforced.
No, Nebris, it isn't a blood feud. The Arab states and the Palestinians have been offering Israel a reasonable and practical peace deal for decades, which Israel has rejected, although there was some wavering under Barak and at Taba. I don't think it is likely, but it could still happen. The Israelis could easily and profitably pull back if they tried to look at things rationally. The Palestinians of course are not "a totally weaponized people" whatever that means and the Israelis are the ones who are pushing the Palestinians, not vice versa.
ReplyDeleteI mean the evidence and reasoning for my paragraph above is overwhelming. But people - like Konrad or GLH on the other side for their unreasonable claims- have to actually have some interest in evidence and apply ordinary standards of reasoning to it, have to have some doubt ....
Calgacus, you're a naive fool. Remember that the Palestinians were once allied with the Nazis. Killing all the Jews in the Levant has always been their goal.
ReplyDeleteLike I said, you have to have some tiny doubt about convictions one has been imbibed. You have to actually look at the evidence occasionally and think about it. One can of course make a far better case for the Israeli goal being killing all the Palestinians. But that is of course not true.
ReplyDeleteAs I said, the Palestinians and the Arab states have accepted Israel for decades; the conflict is essentially self-perpetuating, perpetuated by the military industrial complexes of Israel and the US and a self-reinforcing narrative that does not look at actual facts, crimes and peace offers. The basic Palestinian goal is just to have a decent life. It is forestalled by their irrational tormenters, Israel and its crazy US supporters of pouring gasoline on fires.
Thanks for calling me naive. These days, "naive" beliefs generally are true, since everyone else is so worried about being so smart that they outsmart themselves with nonsense.
Perhaps I should have gone with the more accurate 'useful idiot'...
ReplyDeleteThere was a Two State Solution once upon a time, back in 1948. The Arabs instead chose to invade with the quite believable statement that they'd 'drive the Jews into the sea'. The Arab states may have backed off that after getting beaten so badly so many times, but it's still in their hearts. The PA and Hamas are merely their 'shock troops' now.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteYes, Israel is the Prussia of the Middle East. Yes, it uses brutal fascistic methods against its enemies. That is the unfortunate outcome of a century where half the world’s Jews were murdered and their only plot of land has been under attack since before it was born. In a war for survival, every atrocity is permitted.
ReplyDeleteOn the other side, the Palestinians have been radicalized for a half dozen generations. All they know is 'War and Resistance'. Their leadership is utterly corrupt and venal. They have the second highest rate of Honor Killings per capita in the Muslim world. [Pakistan is #1] They are completely incapable of living peacefully with any Jew, let along the hated Israelis.
This will end in Fire and Death. The only question is one of timing...
It is difficult to reason people out of beliefs that they haven't been reasoned into, but ...
ReplyDeleteYou could make an argument for 48 being a war for survival. OK. Well, since then the Arabs have accepted Israel. That was the opinion of Bernadotte after he met with the Arab leaders. Who assassinated that peace mediator? Israelis or Arabs?
Who was the leader of the Palestinian negotiating team in Madrid before the Oslo abortion. Haydar al-Shafi - who had supported the 1947 partition plan in 1947, because he was a clear sighted realist. The Palestinians are motivated by hatred? Why would they respect and appoint such a man? What about the Arab Peace Initiative? Every Arab state and the Palestinians hold out an olive branch. Full peace treaty and friendly relations.
The Arab states may have backed off that after getting beaten so badly so many times, but it's still in their hearts.
The next war was 1956, which was entirely Israeli-French-British aggression. That was the US/Soviet/UN position at the time. Because it was really obviously true. The aggression almost always was and is in Israeli hearts, not the other side. Is there a clearer case of psychological projection?
From Wikipedia: "the human ego defends itself against unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others. For example, a person who is habitually rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude." And the Talmud: "Do not taunt your neighbor with the blemish you yourself have."
On the other side, the Palestinians have been radicalized for a half dozen generations. All they know is 'War and Resistance'.
All they know is that the Israelis are crazy. Again, psychological projection. Do not taunt your neighbor with the blemish you yourself have. Do not taunt your neighbor with the blemish you yourself have.... Is what the Palestinian psychotherapist should tell the Israeli patient.
They are completely incapable of living peacefully with any Jew, let along the hated Israelis.
No, if you look at the history, the more logical generalization is that Israelis are incapable of living peacefully with any Arab, let alone the hated Palestinians. This is NOT true, but that's what you can make evidence suggest. Not the opposite. Have I mentioned psychological projection?
Believe that things must end in Fire and Death.... Well, beware of what you wish for. You might get it.
I mean on this blog we have other cases of psychological projection. And there are prominent and sometimes insightful people who ignorantly make such statements that destroy their credibility (Paul Craig Roberts)
ReplyDeleteGermany suffered more after the war than the suffering it imposed during?
Yeah, right.
Germany attacked the USSR because the USSR was about to attack it?
Yeah, right.
The answer to such beliefs and the crazy idea that the Palestinians are attacking Israel and not vice versa is sweet reason (at $100/hour). Look at and weigh the evidence by normal standards. Hold beliefs that you are reasoned into.
That Palestinian psychotherapist needs to hold group sessions. Too many patients.
You seem driven by wishful thinking. But whatever...
ReplyDelete