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Is it 'goldman sachs' that is the problem or their original act to enter into the currency union that removes a nations ability to issue debt securities in their own currency???
I say the latter.... unless somehow goldman has acquired an evil mind control ray gun that can brainwash a majority of the Greek citizens into thinking Euro membership is a good idea.... then yes it would be those dastardly evil geniuses at goldman after all.
The majority of the Greek citizens didn't vote for joining euro currency. No one asked them. The decision was made from bankers and politicians. For the rest read the article...
Havent seen more recent polling on the Euro in Greece...
Looks like people generally dont want to leave that system.
and hence, loans with collateral usually have better terms for the borrower...
So either seems like Greece has to leave the union or start to explain what they are up against systemically vs some of the more "productive" nations in the union... and suggest some equitable adjustments to Euro policy...
'blaming goldman sachs' is missing the mark and imo a big waste of time....
say you build a bridge to carry 20,000 lbs and then sit there and watch a 40,000 truck drive over and collapse the bridge.... do you blame the truck driver? When you did not post a sign indicating the max capacity?
Matt, no one saying that Goldman forced Greece into the EZ or to go out on a limb. Goldman just arranged several dodgy deals that allowed Greek authorities to mask the trouble that was building, and no one minded until Greek authorities said no to the next deal. Then the roof fell in. If the Greed authorities were willing to go along, GS would likely have structured new deals until they owned the country. Apparently the Greek authorities woke up to this and said no.
the link is recent and conditions are much different now because Greece is actually "traped" inside the eurozone. Again, no one asked Greek people if they want to join eurozone back in 2001.
Also, no one asked Greeks if they want 2004 Olympics. I can assure you that many people were against them because they knew that will load country with more debt.
Also Tom's answer completely covered me.That's the point as describes.
It's really absurd to blame Goldman Sachs for this disaster. They merely acted to serve their client's wishes - exactly what any bank is supposed to do.
The real blame goes to the Greek authorities, who betrayed their people's best interests by deciding to join the mad project of monetary integration in Europe. The Greek elites wanted at all costs to be in the euro. And then the euro destroyed the Greek economy. That's the story in a nutshell.
In a sense, it would have been preferable for Greece to keep playing the game with GS until the very end. As the French say, if the bottle of wine has been opened, we have to drink it until the end. The stripping of Greece's assets - and the destruction of the whole economy - by the Troika since the country was forced to ask for "help" makes any fees or conditions asked by GS for performing its services look like "peanuts" in comparison.
In clinical psychology and psychotherapy, there is the concept of the enabler. dysfunctional behavior like substance abuse generally depends on some enabling. Some enablers are themselves dysfunctional or caught up in a dysfunctional relationship. But some enablers are perverse and some of these profit from their enabling. Predatory lenders are of the latter type. Then they blame the victim and seek to "justice" by acquiring the victims assets. It's an ancient game with a variety of twists.
10 comments:
Is it 'goldman sachs' that is the problem or their original act to enter into the currency union that removes a nations ability to issue debt securities in their own currency???
I say the latter.... unless somehow goldman has acquired an evil mind control ray gun that can brainwash a majority of the Greek citizens into thinking Euro membership is a good idea.... then yes it would be those dastardly evil geniuses at goldman after all.
rsp,
The majority of the Greek citizens didn't vote for joining euro currency. No one asked them. The decision was made from bankers and politicians. For the rest read the article...
system,
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/05/22/greek-paradox-majority-believe-greece-can-stay-in-euro-but-reject-bailout/
Havent seen more recent polling on the Euro in Greece...
Looks like people generally dont want to leave that system.
and hence, loans with collateral usually have better terms for the borrower...
So either seems like Greece has to leave the union or start to explain what they are up against systemically vs some of the more "productive" nations in the union... and suggest some equitable adjustments to Euro policy...
rsp,
'blaming goldman sachs' is missing the mark and imo a big waste of time....
say you build a bridge to carry 20,000 lbs and then sit there and watch a 40,000 truck drive over and collapse the bridge.... do you blame the truck driver? When you did not post a sign indicating the max capacity?
Who is in charge? goldman sachs? I think not...
rsp,
Matt, no one saying that Goldman forced Greece into the EZ or to go out on a limb. Goldman just arranged several dodgy deals that allowed Greek authorities to mask the trouble that was building, and no one minded until Greek authorities said no to the next deal. Then the roof fell in. If the Greed authorities were willing to go along, GS would likely have structured new deals until they owned the country. Apparently the Greek authorities woke up to this and said no.
Matt,
the link is recent and conditions are much different now because Greece is actually "traped" inside the eurozone. Again, no one asked Greek people if they want to join eurozone back in 2001.
Also, no one asked Greeks if they want 2004 Olympics. I can assure you that many people were against them because they knew that will load country with more debt.
Also Tom's answer completely covered me.That's the point as describes.
It's really absurd to blame Goldman Sachs for this disaster. They merely acted to serve their client's wishes - exactly what any bank is supposed to do.
The real blame goes to the Greek authorities, who betrayed their people's best interests by deciding to join the mad project of monetary integration in Europe. The Greek elites wanted at all costs to be in the euro. And then the euro destroyed the Greek economy. That's the story in a nutshell.
In a sense, it would have been preferable for Greece to keep playing the game with GS until the very end. As the French say, if the bottle of wine has been opened, we have to drink it until the end. The stripping of Greece's assets - and the destruction of the whole economy - by the Troika since the country was forced to ask for "help" makes any fees or conditions asked by GS for performing its services look like "peanuts" in comparison.
In clinical psychology and psychotherapy, there is the concept of the enabler. dysfunctional behavior like substance abuse generally depends on some enabling. Some enablers are themselves dysfunctional or caught up in a dysfunctional relationship. But some enablers are perverse and some of these profit from their enabling. Predatory lenders are of the latter type. Then they blame the victim and seek to "justice" by acquiring the victims assets. It's an ancient game with a variety of twists.
An example of how the banking cartels control countries
http://failedevolution.blogspot.gr/2013/11/an-example-of-how-banking-cartels.html
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