An economics, investment, trading and policy blog with a focus on Modern Monetary Theory (MMT). We seek the truth, avoid the mainstream and are virulently anti-neoliberalism.
The Nordic countries are light years behind the USA. Free higher education is not the answer. Most jobs do not need college degrees but the education mafia and the wealthy want it to lock out the intelligent high school graduate be from any possibility of success knowing that you have to be wealthy to pay for University. Take away mandatory "college degree" required. A well educated High School graduate can do 80% of the jobs when trained properly.
I look at it is that once Public education went sky-high, THEN the "for-profit" schools moved in to undercut the public schools and STILL make a fortune...
govt creates profit opportunities that firms then enter into... this is how the whole economy runs...
The fact that Americans now think the sole purpose of education is to prepare a person for the job they are going to do is part of the problem. That prevalence of that kind of attitude is itself an index of a once-rising society that is reverting to barbarism.
I went to amazon to see if they had Tom Hickey's book in print because I hate reading long digital versions and I found an interesting book by another Hickey. He filed a whistle blower lawsuit against the SUNY for fraud because they allow Fs and Ds, and haven't expelled students or tutored them though the students would never qualify for a degree. They emails between administrates cited the reason for allowing the students was to keep collecting those student loan checks. The furor that erupted has other academics claiming that their universities are allowing kids to graduate through grade inflation with skills below what is required for a high school graduate, basic reading and writing. The problem is worst among the poor and black.
Government promotes industries that have lower wages, while they are trading away the industries with higher productivity while claiming the opposite. But until you look at the actual data, you buy into the nonsense. The only way college degrees look more valuable than skilled labor (solely on earning power) is if you include retail, fast food and hotel as "skilled" labor. Then you include the skilled labor that has vocational or certificate training as being "college educated". Then you get higher earning power from college grads. Otherwise, a 4 year degree, doesn't do the trick anymore when you add in lost earning power, student loans and stagnant wage growth. Obviously the ability to write and think has other value in life. But strictly in economic terms, the hard data doesn't add up. Funny universities don't public how many kids get employment in their field, how many get their professional certificates, and how many drop out with debt
The fact that Americans now think the sole purpose of education is to prepare a person for the job they are going to do is part of the problem. That prevalence of that kind of attitude is itself an index of a once-rising society that is reverting to barbarism.
Agree that preparing individuals for jobs is not the primary purpose of education. It never was. If one's education is used on the job, it is a secondary effect.
The primary purpose of education individually, communally, and socially is to assist individuals to unfold as much of their inherent potential as possible both as individuals, members of communities and the society, and as human beings. "A good education" is holistic. Liberal education prepares citizens for participation in a "free society."
Historically, job truing was traditionally through apprenticeship, starting at the bottom and eventually mastering one's field. Master carpenter, master plumber, etc. are still used in the trades today. In the past, teachers were called masters, as it master's degree.
Aristotle observes in the Nichomachean Ethics that education for life in a good society involves a discipline through which one first achieve self-control and finally self-mastery, where discipline is so ingrained that control is no longer needed. One does what is right spontaneously, that is, automatically hits the mark between excess and defect in performing action.
Spiritual mastery as set forth in perennial wisdom is realizing the full potential of consciousness as infinite and eternal.
The notion of education as essentially job training is puerile and not worthy of a free people. With basic ideas like this, a people will likely not remain free for long.
What Tom and Dan say is of course correct, Education is required for an informed electorate and a lively mind, not for getting a job. But that isn't what is being sold to America. We are told that the only way to avoid poverty is to get a degree. The largest employers in America today are Walmart, Target, Kroger, IBM, and UPS. In the 50s it was GM, Chrysler, US Steel, Std Oil. I will believe all the hype about our amazing productivity when you can show how in one hour a Walmart Employee produces more value than the largest Employer in 1950, General Motors, which paid then (~$2/hr entry level ~ 15/hr in current dollars) to their line workers which is almost double what Walmart pay today, 55 years later. The only difference was then the wage included pension and health care, now walmart doesn't have pension or full health care. Yet productivity is soaring in the United States according to statistics. Right, for some, but that doesn't have anything to do with a college degree or for the majority. No matter how many degrees you get, Walmart and Kroger and UPS are never going to create much value per hour of labor distributing imports. NEVER. EVER. The government has to set research, education, and industrial strategic goals and set policy to maximize employment. They have to provide safety nets to make it so that low wage industry has to compete for labor. The alternative is a race to the bottom. College degrees aren't magical.
I agree, Ryan. It's a sales job that is BS covering up the shrinking of opportunity in the US job market. Promising a better job through more education is just not true for most. It leads to a college degree being required to drive a bus, which, of course, is totally unnecessary for the job. Conversely, being over-eductated can prevent one from getting some jobs, since employers conclude that one won't be satisfied and won't stay very long.
I suspect that comparing US & Scandinavian college-edu programs is trying to compare apples & oranges.
Is the whole point of a liberal education simply maintaining Group Intelligence, and an agile electorate capable of Maneuver_Contex_Management? (similar to "Maneuver Warfare")
An easy test of national perceptions? Survey college students. What % are staying in college purely based on the expectation that they'll get a better job?
If that's what they think, then the've already been miseducated, before even getting to college.
16 comments:
good thing we're building "Intelligence" instead of Group Intelligence, right?
How Security Agencies Serve Congress
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/02/06/1275491/-Cartoon-Overseeing-the-overseers
I feel safer - and more intelligent - every time I hear the word "NSA" ... not to mention CIA & DHS
What'd Nixon say? "I am not a crook." Neither is any other part of the MICC either.
https://plus.google.com/104140272098689841413/posts/LymCet9ek7U
Lynn Wheeler comments:
this afternoon [I] watched rebroadcast CSPAN2 "James Bamford on NSA Spying and Edward Snowden"
http://www.c-span.org/video/?317237-1/NSASp
Bamford kept referring to "where is [Sen. Frank] Church when you need him"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Church#Warning_about_the_NSA
The Nordic countries are light years behind the USA. Free higher education is not the answer. Most jobs do not need college degrees but the education mafia and the wealthy want it to lock out the intelligent high school graduate be from any possibility of success knowing that you have to be wealthy to pay for University. Take away mandatory "college degree" required. A well educated High School graduate can do 80% of the jobs when trained properly.
I look at it is that once Public education went sky-high, THEN the "for-profit" schools moved in to undercut the public schools and STILL make a fortune...
govt creates profit opportunities that firms then enter into... this is how the whole economy runs...
rsp,
Light years behind in what? Education?
The fact that Americans now think the sole purpose of education is to prepare a person for the job they are going to do is part of the problem. That prevalence of that kind of attitude is itself an index of a once-rising society that is reverting to barbarism.
How can Obamacare deplete jobs number in just a matter of months?
Give a tax deduction for those who put their primary and secondary in private schools.
This will open up private schools to take on overcrowded public schools.
I went to amazon to see if they had Tom Hickey's book in print because I hate reading long digital versions and I found an interesting book by another Hickey. He filed a whistle blower lawsuit against the SUNY for fraud because they allow Fs and Ds, and haven't expelled students or tutored them though the students would never qualify for a degree. They emails between administrates cited the reason for allowing the students was to keep collecting those student loan checks.
The furor that erupted has other academics claiming that their universities are allowing kids to graduate through grade inflation with skills below what is required for a high school graduate, basic reading and writing. The problem is worst among the poor and black.
Education never solves the need for larger deficits. Never. To drive home the point, how do we compare to the Nordic countries, on unemployment? We're all the same except, Norway. On participation? All within a couple percent of each other, On tertiary education? Nordics spend more. We're all about the same, the only difference is Norway where the unemployment rate is lower because their oil income allows them to have a BIG like system that allows 1/5 working age men to not work, and not look for work, yet live a dignified existence. Don't believe me:
References:
Tertiary Education Expenditures
Unemployment Rates
Participation Rates
Tom Hickey Whistle blower
Grade Inflation Fraud
Youth Unemployment Higher In Nordic Countries
Academic ideology trumps the employment data
Earning power Career Track Skilled Trades vs Higher Education
Government promotes industries that have lower wages, while they are trading away the industries with higher productivity while claiming the opposite. But until you look at the actual data, you buy into the nonsense.
The only way college degrees look more valuable than skilled labor (solely on earning power) is if you include retail, fast food and hotel as "skilled" labor. Then you include the skilled labor that has vocational or certificate training as being "college educated". Then you get higher earning power from college grads. Otherwise, a 4 year degree, doesn't do the trick anymore when you add in lost earning power, student loans and stagnant wage growth. Obviously the ability to write and think has other value in life. But strictly in economic terms, the hard data doesn't add up. Funny universities don't public how many kids get employment in their field, how many get their professional certificates, and how many drop out with debt
The fact that Americans now think the sole purpose of education is to prepare a person for the job they are going to do is part of the problem. That prevalence of that kind of attitude is itself an index of a once-rising society that is reverting to barbarism.
Agree that preparing individuals for jobs is not the primary purpose of education. It never was. If one's education is used on the job, it is a secondary effect.
The primary purpose of education individually, communally, and socially is to assist individuals to unfold as much of their inherent potential as possible both as individuals, members of communities and the society, and as human beings. "A good education" is holistic. Liberal education prepares citizens for participation in a "free society."
Historically, job truing was traditionally through apprenticeship, starting at the bottom and eventually mastering one's field. Master carpenter, master plumber, etc. are still used in the trades today. In the past, teachers were called masters, as it master's degree.
Aristotle observes in the Nichomachean Ethics that education for life in a good society involves a discipline through which one first achieve self-control and finally self-mastery, where discipline is so ingrained that control is no longer needed. One does what is right spontaneously, that is, automatically hits the mark between excess and defect in performing action.
Spiritual mastery as set forth in perennial wisdom is realizing the full potential of consciousness as infinite and eternal.
The notion of education as essentially job training is puerile and not worthy of a free people. With basic ideas like this, a people will likely not remain free for long.
What Tom and Dan say is of course correct, Education is required for an informed electorate and a lively mind, not for getting a job. But that isn't what is being sold to America. We are told that the only way to avoid poverty is to get a degree.
The largest employers in America today are Walmart, Target, Kroger, IBM, and UPS. In the 50s it was GM, Chrysler, US Steel, Std Oil. I will believe all the hype about our amazing productivity when you can show how in one hour a Walmart Employee produces more value than the largest Employer in 1950, General Motors, which paid then (~$2/hr entry level ~ 15/hr in current dollars) to their line workers which is almost double what Walmart pay today, 55 years later. The only difference was then the wage included pension and health care, now walmart doesn't have pension or full health care. Yet productivity is soaring in the United States according to statistics. Right, for some, but that doesn't have anything to do with a college degree or for the majority. No matter how many degrees you get, Walmart and Kroger and UPS are never going to create much value per hour of labor distributing imports. NEVER. EVER. The government has to set research, education, and industrial strategic goals and set policy to maximize employment. They have to provide safety nets to make it so that low wage industry has to compete for labor. The alternative is a race to the bottom. College degrees aren't magical.
I agree, Ryan. It's a sales job that is BS covering up the shrinking of opportunity in the US job market. Promising a better job through more education is just not true for most. It leads to a college degree being required to drive a bus, which, of course, is totally unnecessary for the job. Conversely, being over-eductated can prevent one from getting some jobs, since employers conclude that one won't be satisfied and won't stay very long.
All of these comments are useful.
I suspect that comparing US & Scandinavian college-edu programs is trying to compare apples & oranges.
Is the whole point of a liberal education simply maintaining Group Intelligence, and an agile electorate capable of Maneuver_Contex_Management? (similar to "Maneuver Warfare")
An easy test of national perceptions? Survey college students. What % are staying in college purely based on the expectation that they'll get a better job?
If that's what they think, then the've already been miseducated, before even getting to college.
"Give a tax deduction for those who put their primary and secondary in private schools."
Better yet, give a tax CREDIT for those who put their primary and secondary education in private schools.
"What % are staying in college purely based on the expectation that they'll get a better job?"
The best thing my college education did for me was keep me out of the Vietnam war.
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