Sunday, January 26, 2020

KV vs Tony Heller - Climate Change Debate - Twitter Part 3

As I was looking for the other threads where I had debated with Tony Heller and I found they were all embedded within the tweets of Part 2. I started updating Part 2 but as these threads were in different branches it started to lose its flow. 

So here's another branch.

SM

The warming corresponds quite well with postal charges. That must be worth investigating? 🙄


MB

Correlation ≠ causation. 



KV

From our science is we know that is not a link, but CO2 is. 
Our science is very good, quantum physics, smart phones, Internet, etc 
World Economic Forum 
 Carbon dioxide makes up 0.041% of the Earth's atmosphere. Here's why that tiny percentage has big consequences


Carbon dioxide makes up 0.041% of the Earth's atmosphere. Here's why that tiny percentage has big consequences

MB


It’s never really worked that way in the geologic record, though. Previous warming events had nothing to do with CO2 emissions.


KV

As you can see in this graph, the sun output has been declining slightly over the last 50 years, while global temperature has gone up.



Tony Heller

People who refer to themself as plural, are not very convincing

KV

1. That's just your opinion 
So, 1000's of researchers all over the world are fiddling their data, but are unable to coordinate their data through electronic media bc it would get hacked 
FF co's could easily expose the scam by paying top whack for climatologists.

2. And their students would wonder what they were doing when the data they help collect gets changed. & the PhD's in other facilities would ask the climatologists how they are getting on, and they would say fine, but be secretly altering the data, unless they are all in on the scam

 3. Surely someone would speak up somewhere with so many people involved? 
And the FF co's wouldn't stand for a hoax, and so would hire the best private detectives to look into it, who would hack emails & pay people good money for facts, etc. But zilch, nothing. Just Lord Monkton.

 MB

They did get hacked a while back, and what we learned wasn’t pretty.

KV


Yes, they did get hacked, & that's why we know their emails are fine today, bc they would be hacked. Obviously everything is above board.
That hack you refer too, all of the scientists were cleared of wrongdoing by 8 different tribunals. It turned out there was no hidden data.

 MB

Making up and altering data to fit a narrative might be fine in climate science, which is why most unbiased scientists think that “climate science” is a joke. The same behavior in finance or medical research would have resulted in jail time.

KV

1. Secret documents get leaked to the media all the time. With 1000's of climatologists all over the world and their students, with PhD's of other faculties, secretaries, clerks, & computer technicians - who repair the scientist's PCs - you would think that someone would have
2. released damming documents by now?

KV

1. No one is answering by question : how do 1000's of climatologists all over the world coordinate their data when they can't use electronic communications?

2.  But the FF co's could easily afford to do the counter science to expose the 'scam'. It would be a v good investment. They could pay top money for climatologists who I'm sure many of whom would prefer to do 'real science'.
SM

When CO2 rises to its highest point in the non-man-made paleoclimate, Earth's temps stabilize and fall.
When CO2 falls to its lowest point in the non-man-made paleoclimate, Earth's temps abruptly rise.
Can you see where you're going wrong here? 🤔




KV

1) We use meta analysis of thousands of studies to find trends and averages. 
Meta-analysis is a statistical analysis that combines the results of multiple scientific studies. Meta-analysis can be performed when there are multiple scientific studies addressing the same question,

 2) with each individual study reporting measurements that are expected to have some degree of error.

SM

 The "measurements" from the studies referenced in your link ALSO contain "some degree of error", but that didn't stop you presenting them as evidence to support your claim. 🙄
Your double-standards are quite impressive. 👏

KV

They use meta analysis from 1000's of studies to find trends bc there are always blips and anomalies..


Shown below is no ordinary pigeon. It's been specially trained, along with thousands of other pigeons, to fly secret messages around the world, so that climatologists can coordinate their data without having to use electronic communications which can easily be hacked. In this way, all the data is secretly synchronised: tree ring, surface, glacier, polar regions, oceans, and satellite, etc.


36 comments:

Matt Franko said...

Why do these people call them "greenhouse gases" in their figure of speech when at the same time they are saying the free CO2 molecules are absorbing energy when that is not what happens in a greenhouse?

Greenhouses work by the interior glass surfaces reflecting the energy back towards the inside of the structure... iow in a greenhouse its not that CO2 molecules trapped inside the greenhouse are absorbing energy... plants in the greenhouse are actually reducing CO2 in photosynthesis...

Ryan Harris said...

Denier, Greenhouse, Catastropic, gives me goosebumps. Arguing about air temperatures, Kaivey did a great job. I know he totally changed my mind with the compelling charts. I'm convinced that everyone should convert to climate change advocate and we should send our children on truth crusades around the globe to convert the masses armed with charts and extinction rebellion flags. Those brilliant street dances and these sort of displays should instantly let everyone denying truth with emotion that their hearts are in the right place and goodness, logic and science are on the other side. Very compelling.

Matt Franko said...

Yeah but Ryan, if they are saying "greenhouse gas!" this might indicate that they are just thinking that somehow the increased presence of the CO2 is just "making it warmer like when you walk into a greenhouse from outside where it is a lower ambient temperature etc..."

iirc I was told one time (maybe this was back in the 'global warming' days ie before 'climate change' and now they just say 'climate'...) that the gas was forming a layer at certain altitude and this was acting like the glass in the greenhouse and reflecting heat back towards the surface of the earth... not being xmitted back into space...

Now they are pointing to CO2 at lower altitude absorbing energy sort of like a low altitude thermal reservoir... the outer electrons excite to higher than normal energy bands or something...

So maybe all the Art degree people around this issue (you can get a BA in "Environmental Studies" at numerous institutions) are just hearing the figure of speech "greenhouse gas" and just think the figurative language is literal (never took chemistry or thermodynamics) the same sort of cognitive error of reification you see all the time with the "we're out of money!" moron people...

iow never studied Accounting Science so they think the figure of speech "money!" is real... never took chemistry or thermo so they think the figure of speech "greenhouse gas!" is real also...

Same cognitive error of reification we see all the time with these people...


Matt Franko said...

Here is paper on CO2 absorbing solar energy (thermal reservoir type thesis):

https://principia-scientific.org/co2-absorption-spectrum-the-bogus-greenhouse-gas-effect/

Matt Franko said...

iow so someone like Greta (who has NO education much less in Chemistry or Thermo...) just hears people say "greenhouse gas!" and since she walked into a greenhouse maybe one time and it got warmer.. she is just thinking the production of CO2 is like "building a greenhouse over earth" or something... she thinks it is real (or maybe literal)... never educated to understand the issue via proper scientific abstraction so she thinks the "greenhouse!" is real..

Ryan Harris said...

It's a sh** show, Matt. But it's a mental prison, a logical box, people like Kaivey or Greta have locked themselves in and can't see or hear themselves, apparently..

And they really don't see any way out but to spend trillions. So agree and take their money. But it's just to make them feel good.

Kaivey said...

Can you explain, Ryan, how they orchestrate this massive hoax? How do 1000's of climatologists coordinate their data when all electronic communications can be hacked?

Ryan Harris said...

It's not a hoax, Kaivey. It's possibly the end of the world. The biggest risk is doing nothing and anyway, what's the harm in spending trillions, it's all for the best. Climate change should be your top priority. Definitely put it ahead of other fiscal priorities and keep subsidizing my investments. It's very important to me that you act as my soldier and keep the troops in line. I'm donating money to ensure researchers remain focused on this incredible threat to humanity and nature herself.

Bob Roddis said...

The burden of proof is on those pushing the climate hysteric position. The fall North America snow extent chart. "Climate" means a long term trend.

https://realclimatescience.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/namgnld_season4-3-1.png

Bob Roddis said...

The 1999 James Hansen temperature graph, pre-manipulation.

https://realclimatescience.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Image0210282ff019.png

Tony Heller explains it all in detail.

https://realclimatescience.com/the-smoking-gun/

Kaivey said...

Look at my tweets above and see if you can answer them?

Kaivey said...

We have the truth and it's been proven. Our science is superb. I'm asking the deniers to produce the science which ciunters the climate science?

To say the burden of truth is on scientists is a cop out when you don't believe the science.

Kaivey said...

Read part 1 and you will see that Tony Heller is clueless.

Kaivey said...

Peter hadfield (Potholer54)

'Kaivey -- The guy [Tony Heller] sent you a 10-day weather forecast to 'prove' that Alaska is having one of its coldest years on record? What an imbecile! No wonder he runs away from debates.'

Ryan Harris said...

Logically it's true, the sceptics only have to produce evidence that conflict with climate change and the burden is on climate changers to explain the conflict or modify the theory. In public opinion, I agree with Kaivey, we need to keep saying that CC is a giant problem so money keeps pouring into research trying to find supporting evidence so more money keeps flowing into my zero carbon investments.

Bob said...

The Mike Norman School of Climatology is in session.

Matt Franko said...

Kevin,

employment of figures of speech isnt Science... sorry... its Literature... Literary Art ... something like that...

Stick with the abstractions used Chemistry and Electromagnetism and related Mathematics...

Youll be better off....

Bob Roddis said...

Tony Heller says that it is Potholer54 who runs away from debates.

https://realclimatescience.com/2019/04/new-video-potholer-show-up-for-the-debate/

Bob Roddis said...

Tony Heller shows how the Australia Bureau of Meteorology hides the pre-1910 heat.

https://realclimatescience.com/2019/12/bom-hiding-the-heat-in-australia/

Nothing is happening now either in "weather" or longer term "climate" events that is different than what has occurred in the past 150 years except that it's a bit cooler than it has been. Climate Change is a hoax. Like Keynesianism. These scams are all just an excuse for the powerful elite to boss around and loot average people who, for some reason, cannot grasp the nature of these hoaxes.

Kaivey said...

I debated with Tony Heller and he run awway.

Bob Roddis said...

Tony Heller collects the official temperature data and then makes his own graphs using software he creates himself. If you claim he has incorrect data for a particular date and place. prove it.

Tony Heller has better things to do:

People are constantly questioning my credentials. Here are a few of them:

BS Geology, Arizona State University
Masters Electrical Engineering, Rice University
Boston University Geology
Northern Arizona University Computer Science
Colorado State University Computer Science
University of New Mexico Geochemistry

Lifelong environmentalist.
I testified at my first Congressional hearing in support of Wilderness in 1972.
I fought for the Clean Air and Water acts
Wilderness Ranger Cibola National Forest, New Mexico
Wilderness Ranger Santa Fe National Forest, New Mexico
Currently battling the City of Boulder, Colorado to stop development on the South Boulder Wetlands
Full time cyclist for all my local transportation, for the past 40 years

Teacher.
Science teacher, Athletic Director and Soccer Coach at Oak Creek Ranch School, Arizona
Math teacher at Phoenix Country Day School
Substitute teacher at Murphy School District, Phoenix Arizona
Computer instructor at Tomball College, Texas

Geologist.
Geothermal research at Los Alamos National Labs
Oil shale research at Los Alamos National Labs
Thermodynamic research of methane hydrates at Los Alamos National Labs
Volcano research at Los Alamos National Labs
Safety Analysis Report for the Permian Basin DOE nuclear waste disposal site
Volunteer curator Arizona Mineral Museum

Electrical Engineer
Compaq/SGI MIPS consortium design team
Power PC design team IBM/Apple/Motorola (Used in most game consoles over the last three decades, and PowerMacs)
Sandia Labs computer architect
Sandia Labs representative to Al Gore’s Bankers Trust key escrow consortium
Cyrix Media GX microprocessor design team manager
Raycer Graphics OpenGL graphics processor verification lead
Design manager Hitachi/ST SH5 microprocessor
Verification lead MemoryLogix microprocessor
Founder, design lead Visual Media video effects/editing software
OpenGL driver development ATI
Itanium/i7 design team Intel (very likely being used by you right now)
Sped up Helicos DNA sequencing algorithm by 50X
Sped up NCAR weather microphysics kernel by 500X
Ported NCAR’s radiative transfer model to GPU
Ported NCAR’s WRF weather model to Windows
Drone visualization and control software for the US military
Medical device control systems (under NDA)
Virtual reality visualization design (under NDA)
Radio control and visualization software (under NDA)

https://realclimatescience.com/2019/04/who-is-tony-heller/

Kaivey said...

Tony Heller tried to convince me that Alaska is getting colder by sending me a 10-day weather forecast.

https://mikenormaneconomics.blogspot.com/2020/01/kv-vs-tony-heller-tweeter-debate.html?

Bob Roddis said...

Just today, Tony Heller posted a video about the shrinkage and growth of glaciers over the past centuries. This implicitly addresses and debunks any claim of "climate change from CO2" in Alaska and the Arctic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHkG18_9y3A

Also, I previously posted a link to the fall Northern hemisphere snow extent chart 1967 to 2019 from the Rutgers Global Snow Lab. The long term trend is for more snow.

https://climate.rutgers.edu/snowcover/chart_seasonal.php?ui_set=nhland&ui_season=4

Bob said...

Tony Heller aka Steve Goddard:
https://skepticalscience.com/search.php?t=c&Search=Steve+Goddard

Kaivey said...

I might send my debates with Tony Heller over to them.

Bob said...

He's been doing this for years.
Are you sure you want to waste your time "debating" this amateur propagandist?

Kaivey said...

I might have one more debate with him, but he knows he's lying. He is conning his followers, but they probably prefer to lie to themselves.

Bob said...

Well the septics are quite comfortable in their echo chamber.

Kaivey said...

If they really believe that the 1000's of scientists working in climatology, and their students, all all lying, then they are mad.

These scientists have loads of scientist friends, technicians who their PCs and Apples, staff who work under them, and so someone would expose the 'conspiracy'.

The ff co's could easily hire scientists to do 'real science', and hire private detectives to expose the scam.

The deniers are completely bonkers?

Bob said...

To outsiders they appear to be bonkers.

Bob Roddis said...

What is "bonkers" about the fall Northern hemisphere snow extent chart 1967 to 2019 from the Rutgers Global Snow Lab showing the long term trend is for more snow?

https://climate.rutgers.edu/snowcover/chart_seasonal.php?ui_set=nhland&ui_season=4

I'm sure that most "experts" support aiding the Ukro-Nazis and sanctioning Iran for doing nothing. It's good to know that you MMT guys have a natural affinity for the phony narratives of the liars and thugs of the Deep State. No Russia aggression means no high paying jobs for experts and no military contracts. No Islamic terrorism means no high paying jobs for experts and no military contracts. No climate change means no high paying jobs for experts researching climate change.

Do you guys even have the slightest understanding of "rent seeking" and "public choice theory"? I don't think so.

Kaivey said...

We are talking about global warming, not regional weather conditions.

Bob Roddis said...

KV: There is a lot more land upon which snow can fall in the northern hemisphere than in the southern hemisphere. It's quite pathetic for you to claim that evidence of increasing snow totals from a non-skeptic source for the past 53 years over the ENTIRE northern hemisphere is a "regional weather condition".

Some people are good at side stepping and double talk. You aren't good at it at all.

Bob said...

What claim is being made?
Warming of the polar desert has resulted in more precipitation.
Those graphs indicate a shift in precipitation from the spring to the fall, and from summer to winter.

Kaivey said...

Whatever you say, global warming can't be denied, unless you are a denier, and then the facts don't count.

Kaivey said...

My recent tweet.

1. I'm going for the climate deniers at the moment.

It doesn't matter what science you throw at them, they say it's fake.

January is like April here, and all over the world people have been experiencing warmer weather for years, but the deniers still say it's all a hoax.

2. What effing planet are they on?