Right-wing Christian: Liberals are the real theocrats because they want to help the poor (via Raw Story )
A prominent right-wing Christian says it’s liberals who want to establish a religion-based government, not conservatives. Tony Perkins, head of the Family Research Council, told conservative radio host Janet Mefferd during her program Tuesday that…
20 comments:
Well first of all, Scripture forbids usury from one's fellow countrymen (Deuteronomy 23:19-20) and oppression of the poor (since they are less so-called creditworthy). However both of these are the basis of our money system!
He who oppresses the poor taunts his Maker, but he who is gracious to the needy honors Him. Proverbs 14:31
F.,
"1 Paul, a slave of Christ Jesus, a called apostle, severed for the evangel of God" Romans 1:1
Keyword here being "SEVERED"...
rsp,
Looks like the only "poor" among the saints were in Jerusalem according to Paul:
"26 For it delights Macedonia and Achaia to make some contribution for the poor of the saints who are in Jerusalem." Romans 15:26
Hmmmmm, I wonder why there were no "poor" saints in Greece and Rome?
"Scripture forbids oppression of the poor"
"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life".
Leviticus 25:44 - 46
“Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property."
Exodus 21:20-21
"When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he will serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he will go free without any payment. If he came in single, he will leave single. If he came in married, then his wife will leave with him. If his master gave him a wife and she bore him sons or daughters, the wife and her children will belong to her master. He will leave single. However, if the slave clearly states, “I love my master, my wife, and my children, and I don’t want to go free,” then his master will bring him before God. He will bring him to the door or the doorpost. There his master will pierce his ear with a pointed tool, and he will serve him as his slave for life."
Exodus 21:2
y,
Ha! Sounds like a neo-liberal paradise!
Good catch!
rsp,
To start with, if you want to talk to most Christians, you needn't bother much with the old testament, just focus on the gospels.
Nowhere does Jesus say the state should not look after the poor. But he is really clear about financial interests: after all, he expelled the money changers from the Temple, accusing them and other merchants of turning the Temple into a den of thieves through their commercial activities.
"he expelled the money changers from the Temple"
Tom,
I think it actually says that He "overturned the tables of the brokers..."
There is no mention of "money" in the Greek scriptures....
rsp,
Here it is:
1"2 And Jesus entered into the sanctuary and cast out all those selling and buying in the sanctuary, and the tables of the brokers He overturns, and the seats of those selling doves." Mat 21:12
Here is the inter-linear:
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/mat21.pdf
No mention of "money" there...
rsp,
@y:
Bible search "oppress poor"
It seems you have a problem in that you think the Bible contradicts itself. The solution is to suspend disbelief and to KEEP READING IT.
Meanwhile, the problem we have is not chattel slavery but wage and debt slavery and not just of foreigners but of fellow countrymen. And in the case of Christians, Scripture is authoritative.
y,
The question is not whether YOU believe Scripture but whether so-called Christians do and act accordingly.
F.,
The issue is that none of that stuff applies to the ecclesia of Christ or perhaps from a secular pov "the nations" today .... THAT is how you avoid the "contradiction" so-called that y is ably pointing out here...
Suggest read Paul's letter to the Galatians.... its all true I'm sure, but it is not something that applied outside of the house of Israel...
You cant just take that stuff and then think it will apply in the nations it won't work ...
rsp,
THAT is how you avoid the "contradiction" so-called that y is ably pointing out here...
Franko
No. One deals with apparent inconsistencies in Scripture by continuing to read ALL of it.
Some parts of the Old Testament apply only to the Hebrews, have been fulfilled, etc. but other parts such as those dealing with justice are timeless and apply just as much now as then and always will too.
Btw, by pointing y away from the Old Testament, you are pointing him away from his own salvation since many in the time of Jesus could not believe in Him because of their ignorance of the OT.
F.
Paul revealed the salvation in Christ Jesus to Greeks/Romans who couldn't read/understand Hebrew....
rsp,
Franko,
Are you telling me you are ignorant of the Greek translation of the Old Testament, the Septuagint? That Paul quoted from?
Well, are you?
I don't read ancient Greek or Aramaic, or Hebrew, and only a little bit of Latin, so I will take your word for it. I note one does find a lot of mentions of "money changers" in the various translations of the bible from the King James to the New International Version to the King James, although the Message, for instance, has it as "loan sharks", used apparently as a metaphor for money changers. Wycliffe has it as "... and he turned upside-down the boards of changers, and the chairs of men that sold culvers."
Incidentally, we had a little thing called the Reformation because some Martin guy could not reconcile St-Paul's writing with the Gospel of John. Let me just suggest, getting back to my original point, that disdain for indulgences, like disdain for Tea Party "christians", is entirely in line with Jesus's actions in the temple.
Sorry, this may be overkill, but I don't want anybody thinking that I am against money-changing per se -- indeed I hope very much to find the time to take Mike Norman's FOREX course! Because he ain't no Fugger, although there are plenty of purchasable Charles Vs out there.
"we had a little thing called the Reformation" ... and it won't be the last one
killer point, for those who profess to abhor capital punishment!
it's interesting how many of those bankers and economists who fancy themselves as "doing God's work" actually worry about the justifications for their "work"
maybe Brahmin, Buddha, Zoroaster & Tao will weigh in too! Or maybe Allah them together? :)
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