Friday, July 7, 2017

A sampling of views on the Trump-Putin meeting


It's Larry Kudlow at The Daily Caller. 'Nuff said.

The Daily Caller — OPINION
Trump Has Putin Over A Barrel
Larry Kudlow | Senior Contributor, CNBC


James Clapper repeated the "all 17 agencies" canard.
Clapper also explained that all seventeen U.S. intelligence agencies do not have the capabilities.
They signed off on what they could not themselves confirm?

I would say it was pretty evident that the US intel community presented the president with no hard evidence with which to confront Putin — just a lot of "confidence."

Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, blasted President Trump’s meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Friday, saying Americans should be skeptical on how hard Trump pressed Putin on Russian meddling in the 2016 election.
“The American people can be forgiven for a healthy skepticism about just how hard Mr. Trump could have pressed the Russian autocrat, given that the President publicly cast doubt on Russian responsibility and the probity of our intelligence agencies only the day before,” Schiff said in a statement.
Again, no evidence. And Schiff knows it.

The Hill
Top Intel Dem: Americans should be skeptical on how hard Trump pressed Putin
Brandon Carter

The meeting between US President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin in Hamburg is vital to creating a direct relationship that would lead to ending the US hostile approach to Russia, according to Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity Executive Director Daniel McAdams.
Sputnik International
Trump-Putin Meeting Important to End US Hostile Approach to Russia - Think Tank

President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin met face-to-face Friday for the first time, with several topics like Syria and North Korea purportedly up for discussion.
But after the two-hour meeting, two key people in the room for the Trump-Putin talk gave differing accounts of what happened when one particular issue — Russia’s interference in the 2016 U.S. election — came up.
U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said that Mr. Trump opened the meeting by addressing concerns over Russian meddling in the 2016 election, adding that Trump “pressed” Putin on the issue “on more than one occasion” during the conversation.…

One problem? Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov had a different takeaway.
Lavrov told reporters after the meeting that Trump had actually accepted Putin’s assurances that Russia didn’t interfere in the 2016 election.
“President Trump said he’s heard Putin’s very clear statements that this is not true and that the Russian government didn’t interfere in the elections and that he accepts these statements. That’s all,” Lavrov is quoted as saying, according to CNN.
The White House, however, denied Lavrov’s claim that Trump had accepted Putin’s denial, an administrative official told the NewsHour.
PBS NewsHour

The meeting, which was initially planned to last 30 minutes, went on for over two hours.
The leaders discussed many topics, including Ukraine, Syria, cybersecurity and fighting terrorism, according to Putin, who spoke at a news conference with Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe right after his meeting with Trump.
Putin apologized to Abe for making him wait for about an hour.
"Both I and [the US president] owe you an apology," he said.
Meanwhile, Trump and Putin had "positive chemistry" during their first meeting, Tillerson said, adding that there was “so much to talk about" that neither leader "wanted to stop." The two "connected very quickly," said Tillerson.
First Lady Melania Trump was sent into the meeting at one point to see her husband and "get him out," Tillerson also said. "Clearly, she failed," the top US diplomat joked, adding that the meeting went on for another hour after that....
RT
‘Positive chemistry’ between Trump & Putin at first meeting – Tillerson

Much more to come, for sure.

30 comments:

MRW said...

Adam Schiff is insufferably self-righteous.

Kaivey said...

I'm keeping this in my chest box of armaments to fight the Guardian narrative. They had an article this morning but comments were closed. The reporter said they Trump perched earnestly on the edge of his chair(which he did) while Putin with 15 years in government relaxed in his chair. The journalists said Putin walked all over Trump. He said that Putin have minimum eye contact while Trump shook hands too long that was comfortable. In the clip the Guardian showed of the handshake plus a little bit of the talk, Putin didn't seem friendly and was dead serious. I thought this was a shame as Trump gad said positive things about Putin. But the Intel control Trump and so maybe Putin felt a bit peeved. Anyway, it seemed that the rest of the interview went well and the Guardian did not report that.

Kaivey said...

Now the Guardian has a second article saying the meeting between Trump and Putin was successful and neither of them wanted to stop. This is accompanied by photo of them both smiling. So the first article I mentioned above was mainly propaganda.

MRW said...

I just read Kudlow’s piece. He’s a fucking idiot. He claims We are the world’s top producer of oil and petroleum hydrocarbons.. No we’re not. We have the most reserves. True. But we are not the world’s top producer. Russia is.

Matt Franko said...

"Vladimir Putin’s circle of corrupt oligarchs gouge whatever money they can from the impoverished Russian economy and move it to bank accounts overseas."

Venezuela here they come...

Tom Hickey said...

"Vladimir Putin’s circle of corrupt oligarchs gouge whatever money they can from the impoverished Russian economy and move it to bank accounts overseas."

Actually, the US put those people in places after the collapse of the USSR. The US knew that a lot of bad actors were making off with state property for pennines but shrugged it off, saying it was better to privatize quickly while there was an open window and let the market sort it out later.

The Russian economy almost collapsed as the Russian mafia (oligarchs) raped it. Putin stepped in and put an end to it at a meeting in which he offered them choice. Either cooperate with the state or else. People like Khordokovsky gave him the finger so he threw them in jail after trying him for corruption. Those that cooperated still have their legal but ill-gotten holdings.

The US plan for Russia to replace Putin's oligarchs with US puppet oligarchs like Khordokovsky, who is now in the US and whose family is leading the anti-Putin charge here.

BTW, the way Putin came to power was when the US invaded the former Yugoslavia, with Serbia being a traditional ally of Russia. It almost resulted in WWIII. Yeltsin woke up to the US BS and subsequently passed leadership to Putin, who he apparently though was liberal enough but not so liberal as to sell Russia out.

Tom Hickey said...

BTW, Putin's super-high ratings are owing to the fact that he turned Russia around and not only made it more prosperous distributively than it ever had been but also restored Russia's place in the world as a great power by rebuilding the military, which had been all but disbanded, and to do that he also needed to revive Russian industry.

The American analysts are most wishful thinkers and the chattering class wears ideological blinders.

While they chatter, Russia and China forge ahead economically and militarily as the US stagnates and flails about militarily and appropriates more and more funds to high-tech weaponry in the $ interest of the MIC and the generals that are rewarded with high-paying "jobs" after they retire. No corruption there though, right?

Matt Franko said...

Tom the timing could also be simply lined up with the oil price... iow "turned Russia around" might just be the oil.... its just like Rick Perry trying to take credit for the "Texas Miracle"... meanwhile the OPEC people had $100 of pure rent in the global price which effects all producers positively... you cant have it both ways..

Oil was $10 a bbl in 1998 when Russia went to shit..... then it came back up over $100 and gas was over $13 when Putin reneged on the gas thru Ukraine 15% royalty deal set up by the Bush/Cheney people and started this whole mess with Ukraine which led to Crimea, etc... and now the bad relations ... Putin looked at what the USD or EUR value of the Ukraine deal was at 15% and thought it was too much munnie... same with Hugo Chavez...

Back then everybody thought it was "Peak Oil!" etc....

It remains to be seen if Putin's Russia (and Mexico, MENA, others) can can make it with oil down below $50 and maybe going lower it could easily go lower ... the price came off only in 2015 we are just into this and the US is making yuge changes to its energy policies... exporting, coal, LNG, etc..

Volvo/Geely just came out and said no ICE in their cars starting 2019, none... Tesla is moving forward...

Russia needs to bring their A game.... all of these oil/OPEC nations need to bring their A game... maybe this is what Israel is mainly worried about with the Syria thing...


Tom Hickey said...

Agreed the oil price helped greatly, but that was only one factor. Putin was fairly effective in turning Russia around in the sense that he ended the worst of the corruption. But he is not a dictator and Russia is a huge country. It's like trying to maneuver a deep draft ship that is underpowered. I would say he is pushing as fast as he deems possible and as captain has set a good course and inspired the crew. The guy is definitely a patriot rather than anyone's puppet — like Yeltsin was. This is his big sin in the eyes of the US.

Matt Franko said...

Based on history, it will probably go "brain drain" and all the material systems qualified/competent people in these at risk nations will just leave for a better deal in the west and the leave their home country to go down the tubes without them...

Tom Hickey said...

Right. Free flow of labor when it comes to poaching.

Another paradox of liberalism that prevents the spread of liberalism through capitalism (economic liberalism), which leads to asymmetry socially, politically and economically in contradiction of what is represented.

MRW said...

Matt,

Tom the timing could also be simply lined up with the oil price... iow "turned Russia around" might just be the oil...

No, Matt. Tom has the story right; you’re just twirling your short-and-curlies going “oh gee.” Khordokovsky was colluding with Cheney to buy Yukos, the state oil company in 2002, 2003. This was around the time of Cheney’s secret meeting (as VP) with the oil companies. (Khordokovsky’s backer was one of the Rothschilds from London.)

Putin’s PhD dissertation was ‘how to bring a totalitarian nation into the 20th C using natural resources’. He knew what the oligarchs had done under Yeltsin. After the US privatized Russia’s state companies in the 1990s by distributing stock certificates to every Russian citizen—the idea of that fucking idiot Jeffrey Sachs, now a supposed enviro-expert—the oligarchs bought them up on the street from starving Russians for pennies on the dollar. Putin was absolutely determined not to let that happen to the state’s oil company. He would up chasing Khordokovsky around Europe in 2003 to put him in jail. I’m glad he did.

Putin reneged on the gas thru Ukraine 15% royalty deal set up by the Bush/Cheney people and started this whole mess with Ukraine which led to Crimea, etc. […] Putin looked at what the USD or EUR value of the Ukraine deal was at 15% and thought it was too much munnie

I don’t know what rags you read that in over the past few years, but this is another US fairy tale. This is not what happened. (Russia’s gas deal with Ukraine predated Cheney coming into office. I couldn’t be bothered explaining it.)

Volvo/Geely just came out and said no ICE in their cars starting 2019, none... Tesla is moving forward...

Yeah, and with what? There isn’t enough sourced lithium and cobalt to produce the batteries for these electric cars. Tesla claims he’s building the world’s largest lithium battery factory in Northern Nevada. Big whoop. Another fed subsidy play on his part.

Want some reality? Listen to Jack Lifton, the world’s expert on ‘rare earth and technology’ metals explain the commodity problems Musk/Tesla faces. Just listen to the first eight minutes at least. BTW, don’t you read the resource trades, like mining.com? (The biggest source of available lithium is the Congo. US companies like Apple have now signed agreements not to buy from them because they are “conflict commodities’ and I think the US has slapped some restriction on them. The Congo is completely lawless and uses seven-year-olds as forced labor, etc. The other lithium source is Afghanistan, but there is no infrastructure to get it out, zero, in addition to warlords, and Japan already leased huge chunks of it.)

Here’s the Lifton link. Instructive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRdHJsypbgg

MRW said...

Maybe China, Volvo's owner, has made an agreement with the Afghans. If it has, it's wiping the US clock.

Bob said...

It's great when Trump can get along with anyone, and even greater when he can't.

MRW said...

It's great when Trump can get along with anyone, and even greater when he can't. lol

Matt Franko said...

I'm not reading it anywhere everything was fine with 15% volume UNTIL THE PRICE IN USD OR EUR WENT UP... THEN it became a problem...

All of these Zombie nations for premier western currency are second class maybe 3rd class nations... perhaps citizens are actually subhumans...

Matt Franko said...

IMF lent Ukraine like 140b and would be paid back via the gas, etc... then Putin reneged and shut off the gas when it became too much munnie at $13...

You can't renege with business oriented people... this is why Trump is bringing it back up this week he's a business person and that renege was a serious faux pax...

Now looks like they are trying to convert Ukraine over to agriculture and get it back that way...

Matt Franko said...

If he doesn't renege on that gas deal everything would be fine...

Matt Franko said...

Non business people (commies, etc) do not understand the import of his renege...

Matt Franko said...

" isn’t enough sourced lithium and cobalt"

Don't tell me now "peak lithium!"

LOL!!!!

Hey MRW here you may be interested in this book:

https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=CSGTCgAAQBAJ&source=productsearch&utm_source=HA_Desktop_US&utm_medium=SEM&utm_campaign=PLA&pcampaignid=MKTAD0930BO1&gclid=CND_nf_n-tQCFTyVswodrBkBnA&gclsrc=ds&dclid=CKLZrP_n-tQCFeW0swod2MsDdg

I just picked up a used Prius last year the thing uses hardly any gas it's f-ing great! Wish I could plug it in...






Kaivey said...

I can't find anything on the internet to substantiate your claims, Matt. Nowhere did it say about Putin cutting off the gas supply when the 15% deal was making Ukraine too much money. Have you got a link?

MRW said...

Matt, Peak Oil has been scaring the dead since 1954. And the theory has been around since the 1800s.

Peak Lithium? It's not a matter of a lack/dearth/exhaustion (which Peak Anything implies)…lithium is part of $1 trillion worth of minerals discovered in Afghanistan by the USGS in 2010 with some sort of special satellite technology. And $1 trillion is based on 2010 valuation, not current prices which have soared in the past two years. (Didn’t you listen to the Jack Lifton interview? Fercrissake, you’re a trader. You should keep up with this stuff. Lifton is king in his field.)

HOWEVAH. They can't get at the shit in Afghanistan because there's no infrastructure or industrial capability. It will be over a decade before they can get at it even if they start planning for it yesterday.The deposits may as well be on the moon. (Maybe that’s why we’re still in Afghanistan?)

Congo has lotsa lithium, but the US gov is preventing companies from buying it in any quantities and American companies are agreeing because it’s a ‘conflict’ commodity.

Bob said...

Oh look, there's China bringing "harmony" to the Congo...

MRW said...

Chile has lithium in its Atacama desert and was at one time thought to be the Saudi Arabia of Lithium, as Forbes called it in 2008. And China has been in there like Flynn nabbing some of the action. Each lithium-ion electric car battery requires 124 pounds of lithium carbonate so it's easy to figure out how many tons are needed for electric car production projections. I don't know how much goes into an iPhone or laptop.

Matt Franko said...

"According to a contract between Gazprom and Naftohaz signed on 21 June 2002, payment for the transfer of Russian natural gas through the Ukrainian pipeline system had been made in exchange for no more than 15% of the gas pumped through Ukrainian territory to be taken in lieu of cash."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia–Ukraine_gas_disputes

Everything was fine until the price went up IN WESTERN CURRENCY TERMS .... same with Venezuela at the same time .... Putin and Chavez probably called each other and shared the commie playbook...

Matt Franko said...

There are other battery designs that don't use lithium...

Matt Franko said...

Ukraine can grow a lot of wheat so it looks like business people have given up on gas transport (screwed that up) and are looking at Ag to get the munnie back now.....

Tom Hickey said...

Russia-Ukraine gas disputes — Wikipedia

Kerfuffle over Ukraine siphoning off gas.

Matt Franko said...

Started the whole mess... arguing over munnie...

Tom Hickey said...

More like arguing over the volume of natural gas that Ukraine was siphoning off.

A serious dispute began in March 2005 over the price of natural gas supplied and the cost of transit. During this conflict, Russia claimed Ukraine was not paying for gas, but diverting that which was intended to be exported to the EU from the pipelines. Ukrainian officials at first denied the accusation,[2][3] but later Naftogaz admitted that natural gas intended for other European countries was retained and used for domestic needs. The dispute reached a high point on 1 January 2006, when Russia cut off all gas supplies passing through Ukrainian territory.[4] On 4 January 2006, a preliminary agreement between Russia and Ukraine was achieved, and the supply was restored. The situation calmed until October 2007 when new disputes began over Ukrainian gas debts. This led to reduction of gas supplies in March 2008. During the last months of 2008, relations once again became tense when Ukraine and Russia could not agree on the debts owed by Ukraine.[5] (ibid.)

Sounds like it began with Ukraine diverting gas and not paying, with the argument over money (debts) coming after than.