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“Houston hasn't reported a surge of coronavirus cases. But its hospitals tell a different story.” I didn’t provide the link but enter the story title and it will take you
Lots of missing info these days
So the question becomes; who is closer to the truth, people telling you to take this deadly serious and doing all they can to get you to do so?
Or the people like Candace who have been Pooh poohing the medical experts, calling it just another flu, griping about not being able to meet with hundreds of their friends at church, suggesting that old people should die as a sacrifice to the economy and have a history of lying about most every subject they talk about?
I work in a big hospital in a city of almost 2 million......... there is nothing close to ordinary about this
Fraud cases my ass. Look at the excess mortality data from Italy and Spain. The real coronavirus death toll is 3 or 4x greater than the official stats. If the disease has a death rate of 1%, that means it's possible the entire town of Nembro Italy had the virus.
Of course we can't generalize that to other areas, we'll have to do the analysis first. But the reports of ppl in France dying without even getting to the hospital suggest France will turn out like Italy and Spain with a far higher real death toll. I wouldn't be surprised if NYC turned out the same.
So the "out of money!" morons threaten them with a $75k medical bill for the "corona!" boogie man then the people sign a DNR and then test positive and are taken off the ventilator and go to hospice to die....
I’m not in Houston, I just linked to that article about Houston.
Til 2017 I was in a community hospital of 300 beds 90 minutes from Atlanta. Town of 120k. I spoke to a CRNA buddy of mine yesterday They have TEN fucking Covid patients on ventilators. My univ Medical Center has half that in city of almost 2 mil. Our state has been at stay at home for 3 weeks, they just started 3 days ago because their gov just learned the other day that a symptomatic person can transmit. Something real doctors have been saying for over a month. Southern states with GOP Gov’s are in a world of hurt. I hate it but at some point stupidity is a liability...... and it doesn’t have an equal sized asset either. No double entry bookkeeping in that arena
DNR directives are always in play for people who have them. There are different levels however. I have a DNR, but it only kicks in when I reach a certain level of critical condition and my wife, then son, have POA
Nursing home patients come with DNRs, some won’t get anything past supplemental oxygen, no mechanical ventilaion. Some will allow mechanical vent for x amount of time to see if improvement is shown.
DNRs for some people are as detailed as some Birth Plans
Matt, don’t twist this to where it’s the medical establishment scamming old folks and their families to get our Coronavirus stats up to match their dire predictions
It’s fucking GOP politicians thinking that this drop controlled shutdown of economic activity is too big a price to pay to save the senior demographic, whom they are trying to convince are the only ones at risk. Which is just crap.
We’ve had two deaths of hospital employees. 30 yr old ER nurse. 50 yr old Radiology Tech who has had no contact with patients for 3+ yrs
"I spoke to a CRNA buddy of mine yesterday They have TEN fucking Covid patients on ventilators. My univ Medical Center has half that in city of almost 2 mil."
"It’s fucking GOP politicians thinking that this drop controlled shutdown of economic activity is too big a price to pay to save the senior demographic,"
Well we never did this before... so the question becomes 'why now?"
we've had SARS etc... never shut down...
I guess they are saying this COVID-19 is perhaps worse than any previous wrt lethality...
If you are of the mind that you don’t want any heroic measures done, why would you change that?
Cuz it’s a novel virus.? So “ If I get a pneumonia secondary to regular flu don’t do anything heroic, but if it’s from this Chinese flu do anything you have to save me”?
If a little supplemental oxygen gets you through it, no one is going to be denied it. The decision will come if you need intubation/ mechanical ventilation to survive. At our hospital we do not have to think about rationing vents.........yet. It sounds like my old hospital is already getting close.
Yes it’s good that we only have half of that (there are 4 other large hospitals here with patients too) but it tells me Georgia is way worse than is being reported. It also tells me that DeWine was right to be an early adopter of social distancing. We closed up right before St Patrick’s day and that is a huge day around here, our Mardi Gras.
And it’s not the lethality so much as the transmissibility, that is the real concern. In the amount of time it takes one person to give the flu to 10 people CoV has been given to 18,000 people. It is thought to be 1-1.5 % lethal or a little more than double the avg flu but Italy is approaching 10% and Spain 5%. I noticed a week ago that Germany had a mortality rate of 0.3% but if you look today they are now over 1% so they have had a bad week with near 12% mortality every day
The thing to remember about these epidemiologists, they aren’t a bunch of chicken littles. When everyone else is running away from a hot zone they are running in. They are pretty cool headed clinicians as a rule.
Yeah MD governor Hogan did the same thing St; Patricks week... closed all the bars and restaurants....
He is GOP like DeWine but a never-trumper... idt DeWine is a never trumper...
Same thing here St Paticks is a big drunk-fest... starts with "kegs & eggs!" for breakfast and goes from there... people stumbling around by end of day...
Matt It is wise to put down your wishes as early as possible and state clearly who is enforcing your wishes, wife, child, brother who ever. Hospitals with no direction will go to the max with all conditions. Many will cynically say (I’ve said it my self) that doctors will treat you til you tell them to stop, especially in ICU. Procedures = Income. There’s lots of procedures to do on critically ill patients, Central lines, arterial lines, feeding tubes, drainage tubes, peritoneal dialysis, hemodialysis, ECMO blah blah blah Critically ill patients suck up resources, for weeks at a time and this is exactly why epidemiologists are really shaking right now. 80% will escape mostly symptom free or recover at home. 20% will go to hospital. Half of those will go to ICU, Half of those on Ventilators Columbus has 1.5 million. If 10% get virus this month that’s 150,000 of which 30,000 will show up in ER AND 15,000 will be in ICU and 7500 needing respiratory assistance. Even if this happened over 2 month period that’s a lot of ICU beds for just Covid patients. Strokes, heart attacks, GI bleeds, appendicitis, placental abruption aren’t on paid vacation
“Well if I had a massive stroke and lost brain function and was in a coma unable to breathe then maybe I myself would say DNR...”
You wouldn’t be able to say anything then, it’s too late
DeWine did not run as a never Trumper. I would not characterize him that way at all, but he is an Ohioan Firster. If Trump called him and told him that things he was doing were hurting his chance at reelection DeWine would just shrug and say Sorry
So Matt if you watch everything from Trump the you've surely noticed the obvious phonemic paraphasia, agramatticism and movement disorders.. he's clearly very ill.
I get that, I was only trying to make a point about DeWine.
Trump has given up on caring about how people think he handled the onset of the virus because he OBVIOUSLY was a complete disaster. Starting out with nonchalant dismissive language, hoping it wasn’t as bad as it is and trying to justify leaving 1-2% of the people dying while hospital ERs becalmed overwhelmed during acquisition of “herd immunity”. Thankfully someone talked a little sense into him. Now he is focused on looking like the guy who kept the deaths below 500,000 and painting that as an absolute miracle that he himself is fully responsible for. Not Fauci, not Birx, not anyone else but him........ and the private sector, this nebulous force that magically takes care of us The 21st century “invisible hand”. I want to say people are smarter than that but I seriously have my doubts. My only hope is that his pettiness to Democratic govs who don’t kiss his ring will wake up the GOPers in those states to what an unqualified person he is to lead anything. Trump is a boss, a mob boss, not a leader. We need leadership not bossiness. That’s always true in the public sector
"Are you saying you’re duplicitous as well Matt? "
No... I still got him though..
"Now he is focused on looking like the guy who kept the deaths below 500,000 and painting that as an absolute miracle that he himself is fully responsible for. "
yes... everything is focused on re-election...
" what an unqualified person he is to lead anything."
have to disagree he's VERY qualified for the job... VERY... perhaps in a relative sense..
He's inheritied the Pat Buchanan wing of the GOP I have been voting for that for last 30 years.. finally getting it...Bush people OUT...
Im voting for him again... it will be better than a Democrat alternative...
You have to exercise the franchise and you get a choice between the two...
that old Brooklyn commie POS red diaper baby thinks we have to tax Bill Gates to get clean water....
And then the MMT morons fawn all over him... I dont get it... THAT I dont get...
"Hey Matt!, do you get the MMT people who go all around saying we are not out of money and then they support Bernie who goes all around and says we need to tax Bill Gates to get the money for clean water?"
No... that I dont got... have no idea how their moron brains work...
Hey maybe you left hypocrites can just think of corona as retro active abortion?
Or if you are believing Darwin, you could just think of corona as "survival of the fittest!"... will increase "herd immunity!"... you Darwin lovers who would want to blow Darwin if he was still alive should be fine with it...
I've watched a lot of Trump to try to catalog the symptoms of his probable frontotemporal dementia, and I too think most of the left has a poor characterization of Trump. He's not Hitler, and he's not low iq at all, but he isn"t very knowledgeable about much either. In general, he's a bit of a bungler, likely due to his ignorance (he's pulling off his biggest bungle ever at the moment). Possibly has a learning disorder (doesn't read very well), and unquestionably has at least one, maybe more, personality disorders. His narcissism and ADD prevent him from being an effective leader... But the things Trump is good at, goddamn, he's a motherfuckin ninja. He's a master manipulator, world class, one of the best the world has ever seen, maybe the best. And we've never seen a bigger troll, he gets a 15 out of 10 on trolling. It's kinda a thing of beauty to watch Trump do a little trolling. When he put slick willy's accusers in the debate audience, that was like the most boss move of all time. Gotta give the devil his due. He's definitely a very interesting character.
Regarding Trumps IQ, it doesn’t matter what number he registered on some test, not being knowledgeable is much more important. And I would argue how high can your IQ be if you don’t value knowledge? More importantly how useful is a high IQ if you don’t use it.? He obviously has powers of persuasion........ with the most persuadable population. Any group that considers their pastor as more an authority on public health matters than a physician, and that describes 90% of Trumps base..... including Franko, should actually have their right to opine on public matters revoked.
I don't disagree Greg, just saying intelligence is different than knowledge or wisdom.. the analogy I like is his brain is like a fairly well performing car engine, but he's missing 3/4 of the drive train so most of the time he can't go anywhere. But that one wheel, boy oh boy does he get power to it.
He managed to turn a string of business failures into one of the largest literal cult followings of all time and blustered his way into the presidency despite the entire elite establishment being against him. I find that to be incredibly interesting. I think the left and the "left" has "fought" against Trump in about the worst way possible and calling him Hitler and dumb and all the hysterics, is not only incorrect but it backfires.
And now we have two men with dementia likely to face off against each other to control the world's largest nuclear arsenal. Lovely. (The dnc will probably replace Biden though, he's clearly too far gone. Trump's dementia is a very different kind)
40 comments:
Are deaths from "old age" down too?
https://www.worldometers.info/
Perspective.
Something else that makes you go hmmmmmmmmm
“Houston hasn't reported a surge of coronavirus cases. But its hospitals tell a different story.” I didn’t provide the link but enter the story title and it will take you
Lots of missing info these days
So the question becomes; who is closer to the truth, people telling you to take this deadly serious and doing all they can to get you to do so?
Or the people like Candace who have been Pooh poohing the medical experts, calling it just another flu, griping about not being able to meet with hundreds of their friends at church, suggesting that old people should die as a sacrifice to the economy and have a history of lying about most every subject they talk about?
I work in a big hospital in a city of almost 2 million......... there is nothing close to ordinary about this
Greg are DNR directives coming in play there?
Do not resuscitate?
Iow if somebody comes in and need ventilator but they have a DNR then can they get the ventilator?
Fraud cases my ass. Look at the excess mortality data from Italy and Spain. The real coronavirus death toll is 3 or 4x greater than the official stats. If the disease has a death rate of 1%, that means it's possible the entire town of Nembro Italy had the virus.
https://www.corriere.it/politica/20_marzo_26/the-real-death-toll-for-covid-19-is-at-least-4-times-the-official-numbers-b5af0edc-6eeb-11ea-925b-a0c3cdbe1130.shtml?refresh_ce-cp&fbclid=IwAR2JHfSezyYpGF19NPeuovVtQU7Aac_Vfh4O8LpzoleepudRyJwQJkIpLgw
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-04-01/coronavirus-italy-shows-we-may-be-underestimating-death-toll
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/4/2/1933602/-It-s-worse-than-you-think?utm_campaign=trending
https://elpais.com/sociedad/2020-03-27/el-coronavirus-causa-mas-muertes-de-las-detectadas.html?fbclid=IwAR1m7caZKaQ4BN8n-u2vNvkq06tBSHi5ADirq7iCsImngp1s1_WbTe1LeVE
Here morons are already setting up for the chop:
https://twitter.com/fixthedebt/status/1245148667323039748?s=21
Of course we can't generalize that to other areas, we'll have to do the analysis first. But the reports of ppl in France dying without even getting to the hospital suggest France will turn out like Italy and Spain with a far higher real death toll. I wouldn't be surprised if NYC turned out the same.
What are you seeing in Houston Greg?
Here:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/01/covid-19-hospital-bills-could-cost-uninsured-americans-up-to-75000.html?__source=twitter%7Cmain
So the "out of money!" morons threaten them with a $75k medical bill for the "corona!" boogie man then the people sign a DNR and then test positive and are taken off the ventilator and go to hospice to die....
Dont put it past them....
Not a regulator flu. It mutates much quicker than a regular flu which makes it harder to to come up with a working vaccine.
I’m not in Houston, I just linked to that article about Houston.
Til 2017 I was in a community hospital of 300 beds 90 minutes from Atlanta. Town of 120k. I spoke to a CRNA buddy of mine yesterday They have TEN fucking Covid patients on ventilators. My univ Medical Center has half that in city of almost 2 mil. Our state has been at stay at home for 3 weeks, they just started 3 days ago because their gov just learned the other day that a symptomatic person can transmit. Something real doctors have been saying for over a month. Southern states with GOP Gov’s are in a world of hurt. I hate it but at some point stupidity is a liability...... and it doesn’t have an equal sized asset either. No double entry bookkeeping in that arena
DNR directives are always in play for people who have them. There are different levels however. I have a DNR, but it only kicks in when I reach a certain level of critical condition and my wife, then son, have POA
Nursing home patients come with DNRs, some won’t get anything past supplemental oxygen, no mechanical ventilaion. Some will allow mechanical vent for x amount of time to see if improvement is shown.
DNRs for some people are as detailed as some Birth Plans
Greg do you think we should be advising our peeps to get rid of our DNRs then?
iow if some oxygen and a short time on a ventilator can help get most people thru it then maybe ditch the DNRs for now?
Matt, don’t twist this to where it’s the medical establishment scamming old folks and their families to get our Coronavirus stats up to match their dire predictions
It’s fucking GOP politicians thinking that this drop controlled shutdown of economic activity is too big a price to pay to save the senior demographic, whom they are trying to convince are the only ones at risk. Which is just crap.
We’ve had two deaths of hospital employees. 30 yr old ER nurse. 50 yr old Radiology Tech who has had no contact with patients for 3+ yrs
"I spoke to a CRNA buddy of mine yesterday They have TEN fucking Covid patients on ventilators. My univ Medical Center has half that in city of almost 2 mil."
Isnt that good?
iow the big city only has 5 on vents?
"It’s fucking GOP politicians thinking that this drop controlled shutdown of economic activity is too big a price to pay to save the senior demographic,"
Well we never did this before... so the question becomes 'why now?"
we've had SARS etc... never shut down...
I guess they are saying this COVID-19 is perhaps worse than any previous wrt lethality...
so gotta shut it down for now...
economy is wrecked that is for sure...
If you are of the mind that you don’t want any heroic measures done, why would you change that?
Cuz it’s a novel virus.?
So “ If I get a pneumonia secondary to regular flu don’t do anything heroic, but if it’s from this Chinese flu do anything you have to save me”?
If a little supplemental oxygen gets you through it, no one is going to be denied it. The decision will come if you need intubation/ mechanical ventilation to survive. At our hospital we do not have to think about rationing vents.........yet. It sounds like my old hospital is already getting close.
Well if I had a massive stroke and lost brain function and was in a coma unable to breathe then maybe I myself would say DNR...
Maybe its complicated... like you say you have to really think about it and establish the conditions...
If I got this thing and needed some help breathing for a few days to get over the hump I wouldnt want a DNR to prevent that..
" It sounds like my old hospital is already getting close."
oh ok I see what you mean there.... 5 was a lot for that smaller community hospital...
10-4...
Yes it’s good that we only have half of that (there are 4 other large hospitals here with patients too) but it tells me Georgia is way worse than is being reported. It also tells me that DeWine was right to be an early adopter of social distancing. We closed up right before St Patrick’s day and that is a huge day around here, our Mardi Gras.
And it’s not the lethality so much as the transmissibility, that is the real concern. In the amount of time it takes one person to give the flu to 10 people CoV has been given to 18,000 people. It is thought to be 1-1.5 % lethal or a little more than double the avg flu but Italy is approaching 10% and Spain 5%. I noticed a week ago that Germany had a mortality rate of 0.3% but if you look today they are now over 1% so they have had a bad week with near 12% mortality every day
The thing to remember about these epidemiologists, they aren’t a bunch of chicken littles. When everyone else is running away from a hot zone they are running in. They are pretty cool headed clinicians as a rule.
Yeah MD governor Hogan did the same thing St; Patricks week... closed all the bars and restaurants....
He is GOP like DeWine but a never-trumper... idt DeWine is a never trumper...
Same thing here St Paticks is a big drunk-fest... starts with "kegs & eggs!" for breakfast and goes from there... people stumbling around by end of day...
Matt
It is wise to put down your wishes as early as possible and state clearly who is enforcing your wishes, wife, child, brother who ever. Hospitals with no direction will go to the max with all conditions. Many will cynically say (I’ve said it my self) that doctors will treat you til you tell them to stop, especially in ICU. Procedures = Income. There’s lots of procedures to do on critically ill patients, Central lines, arterial lines, feeding tubes, drainage tubes, peritoneal dialysis, hemodialysis, ECMO blah blah blah
Critically ill patients suck up resources, for weeks at a time and this is exactly why epidemiologists are really shaking right now. 80% will escape mostly symptom free or recover at home. 20% will go to hospital. Half of those will go to ICU, Half of those on Ventilators
Columbus has 1.5 million. If 10% get virus this month that’s 150,000 of which 30,000 will show up in ER AND 15,000 will be in ICU and 7500 needing respiratory assistance. Even if this happened over 2 month period that’s a lot of ICU beds for just Covid patients. Strokes, heart attacks, GI bleeds, appendicitis, placental abruption aren’t on paid vacation
“Well if I had a massive stroke and lost brain function and was in a coma unable to breathe then maybe I myself would say DNR...”
You wouldn’t be able to say anything then, it’s too late
DeWine did not run as a never Trumper. I would not characterize him that way at all, but he is an Ohioan Firster. If Trump called him and told him that things he was doing were hurting his chance at reelection DeWine would just shrug and say Sorry
Are you in Cincy?
Or Columbus?
"If Trump called him and told him that things he was doing were hurting his chance at reelection"
Trump is pivoting to "war time President"...
Believe me I watch EVERY thing he says... EVERY presser... EVERY rally... EVERYTHING....
So Matt if you watch everything from Trump the you've surely noticed the obvious phonemic paraphasia, agramatticism and movement disorders.. he's clearly very ill.
Its otherwise known as being from Queens, NY....
I got him 100%.... to the extent anybody can get him... (very duplicitous person...)... I got him...
Are you a psychologist Matt?
Trump is pivoting to "war time President"...
I get that, I was only trying to make a point about DeWine.
Trump has given up on caring about how people think he handled the onset of the virus because he OBVIOUSLY was a complete disaster. Starting out with nonchalant dismissive language, hoping it wasn’t as bad as it is and trying to justify leaving 1-2% of the people dying while hospital ERs becalmed overwhelmed during acquisition of “herd immunity”. Thankfully someone talked a little sense into him. Now he is focused on looking like the guy who kept the deaths below 500,000 and painting that as an absolute miracle that he himself is fully responsible for. Not Fauci, not Birx, not anyone else but him........ and the private sector, this nebulous force that magically takes care of us
The 21st century “invisible hand”. I want to say people are smarter than that but I seriously have my doubts. My only hope is that his pettiness to Democratic govs who don’t kiss his ring will wake up the GOPers in those states to what an unqualified person he is to lead anything.
Trump is a boss, a mob boss, not a leader. We need leadership not bossiness. That’s always true in the public sector
Are you saying you’re duplicitous as well Matt? That’s why you understand him?
Just checkin
"Are you a psychologist Matt?"
no... Science trained...
"Are you saying you’re duplicitous as well Matt? "
No... I still got him though..
"Now he is focused on looking like the guy who kept the deaths below 500,000 and painting that as an absolute miracle that he himself is fully responsible for. "
yes... everything is focused on re-election...
" what an unqualified person he is to lead anything."
have to disagree he's VERY qualified for the job... VERY... perhaps in a relative sense..
He's inheritied the Pat Buchanan wing of the GOP I have been voting for that for last 30 years.. finally getting it...Bush people OUT...
Im voting for him again... it will be better than a Democrat alternative...
You have to exercise the franchise and you get a choice between the two...
nothing is perfect...
And How can you be supporting Bernie ???
that old Brooklyn commie POS red diaper baby thinks we have to tax Bill Gates to get clean water....
And then the MMT morons fawn all over him... I dont get it... THAT I dont get...
"Hey Matt!, do you get the MMT people who go all around saying we are not out of money and then they support Bernie who goes all around and says we need to tax Bill Gates to get the money for clean water?"
No... that I dont got... have no idea how their moron brains work...
Hey maybe you left hypocrites can just think of corona as retro active abortion?
Or if you are believing Darwin, you could just think of corona as "survival of the fittest!"... will increase "herd immunity!"... you Darwin lovers who would want to blow Darwin if he was still alive should be fine with it...
Matt gets Trump but nobody else. Yeah right....
I've watched a lot of Trump to try to catalog the symptoms of his probable frontotemporal dementia, and I too think most of the left has a poor characterization of Trump. He's not Hitler, and he's not low iq at all, but he isn"t very knowledgeable about much either. In general, he's a bit of a bungler, likely due to his ignorance (he's pulling off his biggest bungle ever at the moment). Possibly has a learning disorder (doesn't read very well), and unquestionably has at least one, maybe more, personality disorders. His narcissism and ADD prevent him from being an effective leader... But the things Trump is good at, goddamn, he's a motherfuckin ninja. He's a master manipulator, world class, one of the best the world has ever seen, maybe the best. And we've never seen a bigger troll, he gets a 15 out of 10 on trolling. It's kinda a thing of beauty to watch Trump do a little trolling. When he put slick willy's accusers in the debate audience, that was like the most boss move of all time. Gotta give the devil his due.
He's definitely a very interesting character.
Joe
Regarding Trumps IQ, it doesn’t matter what number he registered on some test, not being knowledgeable is much more important. And I would argue how high can your IQ be if you don’t value knowledge? More importantly how useful is a high IQ if you don’t use it.? He obviously has powers of persuasion........ with the most persuadable population. Any group that considers their pastor as more an authority on public health matters than a physician, and that describes 90% of Trumps base..... including Franko, should actually have their right to opine on public matters revoked.
And if Trump were booted out in favor of Pence... would Pence lose to Biden?
I don't disagree Greg, just saying intelligence is different than knowledge or wisdom.. the analogy I like is his brain is like a fairly well performing car engine, but he's missing 3/4 of the drive train so most of the time he can't go anywhere. But that one wheel, boy oh boy does he get power to it.
He managed to turn a string of business failures into one of the largest literal cult followings of all time and blustered his way into the presidency despite the entire elite establishment being against him. I find that to be incredibly interesting. I think the left and the "left" has "fought" against Trump in about the worst way possible and calling him Hitler and dumb and all the hysterics, is not only incorrect but it backfires.
And now we have two men with dementia likely to face off against each other to control the world's largest nuclear arsenal. Lovely. (The dnc will probably replace Biden though, he's clearly too far gone. Trump's dementia is a very different kind)
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