Thursday, October 10, 2013

Pat Buchanan: Is Red State America Seceding?

Pat Buchanan a little slow on the uptake but better late than never I guess, his commentary at WND here, excerpts:

In the last decade of the 20th century, as the Soviet Empire disintegrated, so, too, did that prison house of nations, the USSR.
Out of the decomposing carcass came Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Moldova, all in Europe; Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan in the Caucasus; and Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan in Central Asia.
The spirit of secession, the desire of peoples to sever ties to nations to which they have belonged for generations, sometimes for centuries, and to seek out their own kind, is a spreading phenomenon.
What are the forces pulling nations apart? Ethnicity, culture, history and language – but now also economics. And separatist and secessionist movements are cropping up here in the United States.
So Buchanan sees this as part of an emergent global trend which is interesting.

I don't know if I agree with that in the west as we at the same time see popular opinion still very high for countries to remain or even perhaps join the Eurosystem.

Buchanan also brings in 'economics' to the list of things that are fomenting this 'separation' type movement which I don't think I've seen before.

Buchanan sums up the situation thus:
If America does not get its fiscal house in order, and another Great Recession hits or our elites dragoon us into another imperial war, we will likely hear more of such talk.
So in Buchanan's view, the goal of "getting our fiscal house in order" is tantamount to avoiding an unjust war and can be seen as justifying secession.

This is revealing in that it shows how important the issue of "the debt" and "the deficit" is to these out of control, anti-authority, lawless, barbarian, column 11 of the periodic table of the elements metal-loving, and not the least stupid  libertarians.

Libertarians in opposition to the Executive who right now are threatening to keep the government "shut down" and are even rationalizing a potential chaos inducing default by the U.S. Treasury as part of the intra-government negotiation of the fiscal issue.

While those libertarians with the Executive are at a loss to effectively counter this tactic because if the intra-governmental roles were reversed, we would simply be witnessing a reciprocal event as the libertarian forces with the current Executive believe "we are out of money" also.

This is all a deranged internal libertarian civil war we are witnessing, which I hope ends soon.

This is ironic that these libertarian moron's stand in intransigence to a continuing fiscal policy that automatically allows our non-government savings to simply adjust in a "FREE!" response to the government sector's spending and taxation policy.

But of course they are all too stupid to understand this mathematical feature of the current USD system.

At this point the best outcome still looks like it will lead to approximately a 6% reduction in total spending due to cuts in discretionary government spending with still indeterminable reductions in non-discretionary spending.

We have no choice at this time other than to just let this libertarian nightmare continue and see how it plays out.


Unknown said...

Hart Williams has been nattering about secesseion for months (years?) but none of that explains Austerianism (Libertarianism) in New York City or on Long Island. Ignorance of the economic reality runs deep in all jurisdictions and the (re)education of the political class isn't going to happen unless the money gets behind the project of adopting MMT over neo-classical economic voodoo.

Michael Norman said...

That's right. Most people you meet who are liberal or progressive, i.e. who sport value systems opposite to those found in the red states, believe in economic doctrines that are similar or the same to those found in the red states.

Mule Rider said...

"Libertarians in opposition to the Executive who right now are threatening to keep the government "shut down"..."

"This is ironic that these libertarian moron's stand in intransigence..."

As if there wasn't enough evidence out there already that you're a knuckle-dragging, fecal-throwing idiot, you go and post this trash, which is really just you tilting at windmills.

Praytell, where's all this libertarian opposition and intransigence you speak of? From where I sit, there's not one single Libertarian that holds a federal office; not sure what you're seeing that I'm missing. I do see Republican/Tea Party opposition to the President, but only a dishonest maggot would conflate that bunch of yahoos with libertarians.

Ben Johannson said...

do see Republican/Tea Party opposition to the President, but only a dishonest maggot would conflate that bunch of yahoos with libertarians.

True. The Tea Party is just mean and woefully ignorant. Right-libertarians are those things and wannabe tyrants itching to start kicking around the serfs.

Matt Franko said...


What's with all the false metaphor?

"knuckle dragging": I dont drag my knuckles...

"fecal throwing": I never threw feces (at least that I am aware of in memory...)

"tilting at windmills": Nope...

"maggot": Nope, human here...

Can you make your points without using false metaphor?

Here is the wiki on libertarianism:

Its probably like looking in a mirror and imo describes ALL of the characteristics of the set of people on both sides currently botching things up in DC these past two weeks...


JK said...

Where's Bob Roddis been? I kinda miss him.

Mule Rider said...


Sorry, but your response really doesn't refute my charge that it's TP/Republicans opposing Obama on this, not LIbertarians. You then display ample ignorance ranting about "right-libertarians" and "wannabe tyrants." First off all, I'm not sure that anything such as a "right-libertarian" even exists, given that the very nature of libertarians is to escape the entire "left-right" spectrum. You might as well be griping about Sasquatch or Chupacabra. And it's quite rich to insinuate people are "wannabe tyrants" when they're arguing from a 100% non-aggression principle with zero state intervention while you seem to be in the "interventionist camp."


Sorry, but your incoherent response does not count as a valid reply to any of the points I made.

Tom Hickey said...

There are many strains of Liberarianism — Mises, Hayek, Rothbard and Friedman are the economists that also wrote political works based on Lockean liberalism, emphasizing economic liberalism ground in private property as a natural right. Then there is Ayn Rand's Objectivism. All of these are either anti-statist or minimal statist. Libertarians tend to be xenophobic and adjure foreign entanglements.

Libertarianism and Objectivism as opposed to traditional Conservatism, which is based on private property based on meritocracy, the basic principle of Conservatism being that some are better than others. Conservative are authoritarian and desire small government but strong government that protects private property and the privilege it confers domestically and from foreign incursion. Conservatives tend to be nationalistic and desire expansion of national power, and they demand a strong military. Some US conservatives take Hamilton as their hero and others Jefferson. Hamilton wanted a strong federal government and Jefferson strong state governments.

The TP/GOP is a mixture of all of there influences, which are allied against the left that they see as socialistic.