Saturday, April 1, 2017

Alexander Mercouris — Is Bernie Sanders distancing himself from ‘Russiagate’?


It looks like Bernie is repositioning himself as the leader of "real" Democrats in attacking HRC for losing the election all by herself — no assist from Russia needed.

Bernie has also been banging on Medicare for all.

The Duran
Is Bernie Sanders distancing himself from ‘Russiagate’?
Alexander Mercouris

The Hill
Sanders says he will introduce 'Medicare for all' bill
Rebecca Savransky

The Hill
Don't look now: Hillary's back
Ben Kamisar and Amie Parnes

18 comments:

Bob said...

Two entirely separate issues - unless Bernie uses 'Russiagate' as an example of Democratic Party corruption. There is plenty of rot to choose from.

lastgreek said...

Bernie Sanders‏ @BernieSanders Mar 23
How does it happen that we have a president who has nothing but nice things to say about Mr. Putin? What do the Russians have on Mr. Trump?

:)

Tom Hickey said...

How does it happen that we have a president who has nothing but nice things to say about Mr. Putin? What do the Russians have on Mr. Trump?

That's a separate issue from HRC losing all by her lonesome.

Even if it is granted that there was some "Russian influence," the overwhelming evidence is that it did not lose the election for HRC. It was poor strategy on her part, in spite of facing a relatively weak opponent. She just assumed that the Rust Belt was in her pocket and didn't campaign much there. She ran on Obama's record apparently unaware that the Obama years were dismal for a lot of "those" folks.

Penguin pop said...

"Even if it is granted that there was some "Russian influence," the overwhelming evidence is that it did not lose the election for HRC. It was poor strategy on her part, in spite of facing a relatively weak opponent. She just assumed that the Rust Belt was in her pocket and didn't campaign much there. She ran on Obama's record apparently unaware that the Obama years were dismal for a lot of "those" folks."

I generally agree with this explanation. Some people have talked about gerrymandering, voter suppression, Crosscheck, etc. as other factors, but it essentially goes back to this main point.

A lot of the other stuff seems like coincidence, though you can say Russia Today, like FOX News, the BBC or MSNBC, has an influence on people as well and shaping their POV a bit. They have over a million subscribers on YouTube.

Penguin pop said...

Just saw this in my feed, Tom. Even some progressives have been jumping onto the "muh Russia" rhetoric.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLoUeGmTh4g

Noah Way said...

In 2003 70% believed that Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11.

40% believe Russia hacked the election for Trump. Mostly DEMs of course.

Ryan Harris said...

Russian influence = { populism + nationalism }

The Democrats are correct in sensing there is some organisation and philosophy behind their defeat which they don't understand and failed to anticipate. Putin is the face. There was not supposed to be a majority that were injured MORE by trade than benefitted. There was not supposed to be MORE inequality with higher levels of education. More openness and integration was not supposed to lead to conflict and war. Putin! Russia! Is the effigy of many failures. The failure of the technocrats and the western system when the eastern system adapted to and used the western weakness and flaws to advance itself. The western edifice must change in ways that are not consistent with current paradigms. So populism.

lastgreek said...

Tom, the Bernie tweet was in reference to Mercouris' article :)

Mind you, I did find Bernie's tweet odd considering that, from day one of the Trump presidency, he has been hammering him on the issues that matter most -- environment, economy, healthcare, etc.

Tom Hickey said...

The Bernie tweet is an attack on Trump that has nothing to do with Russia' alleged interference with the election.

There are at least five separate issues.

1. The DNC leak or hack as the case may be. Testimony points to a leak.

2. Russia influencing the US election through propaganda, planting fake news, bots, etc. The evidence is non-existent and the rationale weak.

3. Russia hacking the vote. President Obama denied this happened.

4. Trump being compromised by dealings with Russians. Again no evidence. The rationale seems to be base on the dodgy dossier that was ordered up by the New Democrats and then pursued by McCain & crew.

5. Member of the Trump team or administration compromised by Russia. So far no evidence here either other than some meetings that Flynn and Kushner had with Russian officials, which are now being investigated.

Conclusion:

1. Trump is a fair target for raising questions, sort of. Bernie is doing that along with other Democrats as would be expected in the quest for an investigation. It's political, of course, but it's a legitimate thing for the opposition party to do.

2. There is no indication that Russian interference materially influenced the outcome of the election. Bernie is avoiding this, while the rest of the party is using it as an excuse to avoid taking responsibility for the party's lose not only the presidency but also most of the political offices in the US at the federal and state level.


Noah Way said...

Very few of these assholes care about anything other than their own skin. The only way they have to make their party appear better is to sabotage the other party. And both sides sabotage government itself to support privatization.

"government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem" -- Ronnie Raygun

Bob said...

What % of the electorate believe that the Democratic Party platform is progressive?

GLH said...

Until the Democrats get leaders that face up to the real reason for their defeat how can they change?

Bob said...

Their corporate donors don't want them to change. Hence the attitude of the current leadership, which is acting not out of denial, but by design.

Bernie and actual progressives must leave the Democratic Party and form their own.

Dave said...

Russia did try to influence the election, I think they were surprised how successful they were, and so we're the elites in business and government here at home. This investigation is designed to unearth a connection between Russia and Trump that can seriously cripple him and his administration. Just my opinion. And I think they have something they can prove. Will it cause resignations, impeachments, etc? Who knows. But they have enough to hurt Trump, that I am sure of.

Ryan Harris said...

Bernie said that he is going to drop a medicare expansion bill in the next couple weeks while Trump has praised it and has actually threatened Paul Ryan with it.

He implied in the interview today, that they are working in parallel with the GOP and Dems on their plans. It would be amazing to see if Trump has been talking to Bernie urging him to file the House and Senate Bills. I suspect Trump is serious too, if Ryan doesn't get a plan done, he would unwaveringly support Bernie. And I'll bet he'd drag quite a few GOP along with him.

Noah Way said...

Russia did try to influence the election

Got some evidence for that assertion? Any at all would be more than has been demonstrated.

Dave said...

I don't have to provide evidence Noah I'm not an investigator. However, I will say that the FBI will probably prove Russia directly tried to influence the election, mostly through bots and paid trolls. Whether they prove direct collusion with the Trump campaign, Or that Trump used the existing Russian program to his benefit, I don't know.


Dave said...

And I will reassert that Russia was as surprised as anyone that it worked. Was a perfect storm. America is divided, so troll and bot activity was obviously not exclusive to paid Russians. Trump supporters did it for free.

Example. I got into it with a Trump cultist on Facebook. Pretty sure he was American. Once the conversation went against his boy, I got BOMBARDED with Hillary memes. For like 20 minutes. It was weird and unsettling to say the least.

There is a new reality out there now and politics will never be the same. The Trumpers used it to their advantage. Is that so hard to prove? I don't think so.