Wednesday, November 30, 2022

We are interwoven beings — Mercedes Valmisais

 Individualism (West) versus the systems approach (East). Which will win?

Another major difference is the emphasis on abstract principles (West) versus situational awareness (East).

Another, related to the above, is the difference between ideology and practicality.

This article, while interesting, is written from a Western mindset in that the author seems to lack experience of the East. In the West this is usually displayed by those that have practiced Oriental martial arts or pursued Eastern approaches to spirituality. So while capturing the ideas intellectually, it misses the mark experientially. 

Arguably, many in the East do not follow their own teachings in the depth needed to developing the experience needed to grok* the teaching in its profundity. But participation in the culture conveys a modicum of that that the culture of the West not only does not but for the most part rejects, although that has been changing since the Sixties.

Incidentally, Caitlin Johnstone is a commentator, author and poet, who exhibits these characteristics and whose work is based on it.

Aeon
We are interwoven beings
Mercedes Valmisais | assistant professor in the Department of Philosophy at Gettysburg College in Pennsylvania and author of Adapting: A Chinese Philosophy of Action (2021).

* h/t Robert Heinlein, in Stranger in a Strange Land

16 comments:

Peter Pan said...

If we were interwoven beings this wouldn't be framed as West versus East, or categorized as a philosophical conflict. Nor would we slaughter each other in actual conflicts.

Kindness and cruelty are found in all cultures. And so is idealism, except that ideals never come to fruition. No culture will ever rise to their professed ideals. Their actions will betray them every time.

Ahmed Fares said...

Nor would we slaughter each other in actual conflicts.

Genghis Khan would disagree.

“I am the punishment of God...If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.” — Genghis Khan

Matt Franko said...

“If we were interwoven beings”

We are interwoven… you have the evil interwoven with the good… dumb interwoven with the smart… profligate interwoven with the chaste… etc…

And then these characteristics are allotted in degrees or measure…

So we have endless synthesized variants thru our recombinations…

“None is righteous, no, not one;”. Rom 3:10

“ For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”. Rom 3:23

Get tf over it and deal with it… we have our own laws… just enforce them…

Peter Pan said...

Different cultures, same species, same outcome.

Different perspectives, different conclusions, same outcome.

There is something wrong with people who draw moral conclusions from the means (collective action, individual action) rather than examining the ends. Is the outcome justified?

But if these people insist on comparing collective action versus individual action, the collective always wins out in terms of violence, ecological destruction, and death toll.

Now this author is arguing there isn't such a thing as individual action. So all outcomes (good and bad) can be attributed to collective action. What a brilliant intellectual achievement.

Peter Pan said...

“I am the punishment of God...If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.” — Genghis Khan

The sin of not developing mobile, superior ranged archery?

Matt Franko said...

Genghis Khan sounds like a Southern Baptist

Matt Franko said...

“ Now this author is arguing there isn't such a thing as individual action. “

Each of us has our own unique configuration…

But we are Individually, just each a component in a larger complex system… So the action of one component can affect the operation of the larger system…..

Someone like a Kaitlyn Johnstone doesn’t understand this because she’s not technically trained…

So all she really knows how to do is complain about things… no value added…

Peter Pan said...

Individuals have some power to change their lives, and activate others.

Caitlyn Johnstone, an Australian citizen, is making a living from what she does.

Beyond that, I'd like to see an antiwar movement develop from individual voices. I want to see collective action whose outcome is for the betterment of humankind. I'm not looking to 'The East' to do this, but in my own backyard.

Matt Franko said...

There are others that are pro war…

Matt Franko said...

“collective action whose outcome is for the betterment of humankind. ”

Pro war people probably think that is what war does… gets rid of people who’s presence is degrading humankind…

The Pro war is interwoven with the anti war…

We’re interwoven…

Matt Franko said...

Why would you look east? look what China is doing to their own people right now with the Covid lockdowns…

Peter Pan said...

There are people in the west who romanticize the east despite evidence to the contrary. Grass is greener on the other side of the fence syndrome?

Pro war people probably think that is what war does… gets rid of people who’s presence is degrading humankind…

The Pro war is interwoven with the anti war…

We’re interwoven…


It's not 50/50. More like 80% polyester 20% cotton, where pro war is polyester.

Peter Pan said...

This is also activism:

What Does Saving 487 Lives Look Like?
Terrence Popp
https://youtu.be/KqQU2cJxiYg

Would Terrence and Caitlyn agree on anything?

Matt Franko said...

To get rid of war you’d have to wage a war to kill all the pro war people in a war…

ie Paradox…

This is where the Art degree training leads you…

Peter Pan said...

Be careful not to become the monster you're trying to slay...

The problem with ideologically driven zealots, is that they're not careful.

So we get Mao, Pot, Hirohito doing the mass grave mambo.

Matt Franko said...

To me it looks like when the Art degree methodology breaks down then that’s what results in war…

ie no Art degrees no war…