Friday, September 9, 2016

Lord Keynes — A Wikipedia Entry for the “Realist Left”

In particular, the Realist Left rejects neoclassical theory and maintains that a serious science of capitalism has been created by Post Keynesian economics and Modern Monetary Theory (MMT), which should displace neoclassical theory.…
Realist Left ideas are promoted on the internet on social media and blogs (see external links). The economic ideas of the Realist Left can be found on Post Keynesian and Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) blogs, though these economists do not necessarily identify with the Realist Left and would take different political positions.
Social Democracy For The 21St Century: A Post Keynesian Perspective
A Wikipedia Entry for the “Realist Left”
Lord Keynes

37 comments:

Bob said...

I admire your enthusiasm, but it is early to get this past the notability requirement on Wikipedia.

andy blatchford said...

"Realist left" not really when you ape children like Sargon of Akkad. I mean really a bunch of white middle aged blokes complaining about 'feminism' note lack of actually defining what they mean apart from moaning about a Julie Birchel article...I mean who really cares what she thinks. The black helicopters are coming to take your mens rights.

Sure there are zealots in any movement but this is taking the piss. Sounding like a bunch of third positionsists.
I am a white middle aged bloke and at no point have feminists made me sit in a corner and not speak when talking intersectionality, which is actually quite an interesting subject.

"Nuclear family" gone, get over it along with playing dominoes down the working 'mans' club.
"Regressive left" a right wing snarl term. 'Poltical correctness' just be respectful to others that's all, it ain't hard.

Some of these really need to get laid,


andy blatchford said...

"The only people who are actually oppressed by capitalism are people who either can't work, people who've lost a leg or are morbidly obese or something like that, or people who don't want to work because they're fucking lazy, or people who don't have any other skills because they did gender studies degrees. Believe it or not, everyone else actually does pretty well out of capitalism, y'know, something like a house, a car, holidays, food on the table, entertainment, luxuries." Sargon of Akkad

Apparently 'poverty' isn't a thing. The facepalm is the fuckwittery who think Benjamin has anything to say...well apart from moaning about female game journos and setting mobs who have never had a girlfriend on people.

Tom Hickey said...

Arguing over stuff like this is why the left can either never gets its shit together or if it does, keep to together for long. Seems endemic.

Six said...

Well played, Andy! I think the "Old Left" might be better named "The Old-Winey-Bitches Left".

Tom Hickey said...

The Left encompasses a broad spectrum from centrist to radical with different groups having different interests and priorities. To be competitive the Left need to agree on a few points that are also priorities with voters if they want to win elections and self-select out of the running.

In US politics the Right has had a simple formula — small government (v. "big government"), low taxes (v. "tax and spend"), strong military (v. cutting military spending to fund social programs) and family values (v. counterculture).

The response on the left has been either to triangulate (New Democrats, "Clintonism") or bog down in internecine conflicts over issue of no great importance to the majority of voters, thereby becoming irrelevant.

Tom Hickey said...

" if they want to win elections and self-select out of the running" should be "instead of self-selecting out the running."

andy blatchford said...

True Tom. I tried I really did just to keep the peace but I couldn't any longer. The BS I am seeing just hurts. The Birchel piece today was the end for me. Anyone who might want to be for Social or econonimc Justice is labelled a SJW by these, you know what I do care about social justice but apparently I am a 'warrior' but that's utter bollocks as they take an extreme and label everyone that cares in that catagory. ..saddens me to see so called 'left' agree with utter morons on the right. Sargon is an utter idiot.
No doubt I will get grief from his fan boys but they can fuck off as I don't care.

Tom Hickey said...

I don't have any problem with disagreements on the left but only with letting disagreement to operate so as to self-select out the running as far as most voters are concerned.

The left needs a simple four or five point slogan to counter the right. "Big government, tax and spend, cut the military to fund social welfare, and anything goes that doesn't hart anyone else physically" is not going to do it.

The left should be pushing for effective government, functional finance, adequate defense, and liberty based on rights.

Actually, the simple slogan is the well-known "liberty ( human and civil rights) , equality (absence of privilege) and fraternity (solidarity).

Reducing git further, "common welfare," "public purpose."

This is not hard.

andy blatchford said...

"Old whiney bitches left" perfect description

andy blatchford said...

This lot aren't though Tom. It's anti SJW (whatever that is supposed to mean...from what I can see it's a blogger who is siding with a misogynist) anti feminism cos you know middle aged white bloke so fuck what women have to say they should stay at home. Gender studies because that is so simple as they confuse that with sex. Apparently there is no racism and sexism anymore in the west (according to said white middle aged bloke) and then uses strawman arguments by taking extreme examples which if you bother looking isn't the case.
It isn't a realist left it's a left that disappeared in the 1950s, it's a left version of UKIP.

Bob said...

Believe it or not, everyone else actually does pretty well out of capitalism

In Swindon, they certainly do!

andy blatchford said...

Great for Swindon but remind me what the EU result was there, IIRC it was out. That suggests not so fucking great Bob.

andy blatchford said...

54.7% out Bob I checked...capitalism is wonderful erm except that result.

Bob said...

Swindon has been described as a massive council estate. 54% voting to leave seems low.

andy blatchford said...

Sure hardly though support for 'capitalism' whatever that it is supposed to mean...vague description.

Not what my rant is about anyway. It's about some using right wing snarl terms to describe the left and using a few 'out there' articles to suggest everyone on the left is like that but then they are friendly with right wing polemicalists, but no surprise with white middle aged blokes. As said no doubt get attacked by their fan boys. ..don't care.

andy blatchford said...

No doubt though I will get grief for my stance, it will be SJW or whatever. They are pretty predictable, 'pretend left' just a bunch of third positionists not really left. Have some economic left ideas.

















Bob said...

I'm not sure how the existence of poverty escapes him (Rational Wiki's assertion) when he lives in a town that supposedly isn't doing that well, or is viewed by outsiders in a negative light. By YT standards he is on the "left" and will continue to get flack from the right wingnuts.

You may not like that venue (social media), but I think it is significant enough that the left, realist or otherwise, should have a voice. The SJW, BLM antics are not cutting it. Progressivism, if such a thing still exists, is becoming a laughingstock because of those idiots. This is then mirrored in the mainstream, where the policies of the EU are leading towards a right-wing/populist backlash.

I'm also in favor of the hard left getting a voice on social media. They would be able to explain what Marxism is.

Bob said...

For example, Jeremy Corbin. He's described by the mainstream as a Trotskyist, yet no self-respecting Trotskyist would consider him genuine. From their perspective he is a pseudo-leftist. The general public should be made to understand this.

Matt Franko said...

Maybe we who know we're not "out of money!" Should consider ourselves our own group..... This is the way I look at it.... There are probably about 1,000 to 2,000 of us ...

I'd say that is a pretty elite group....

Kaivey said...

I voted for him.

Ignacio said...

Labels and taxonomy is a nasty business. I prefer not to fall on labels, avoid as them as much possible, categorisation forms part on how we form thought, is a part of cognition.

Unfortunately is unavoidable, because we need to 'structure' reality, so it's easy to classify objects (including other human beings) into subgroups than consider them as their own unique class (if you talk with me over an evening about my views on how society works and should work you will end up with a salad of concepts that probably could to a some degree or an other categorise me in the full spectrum of political ideologies).

Problem with this is than when we do this, in a political context, we fall on a dynamic of inner vs. outer group, this is well studied in social psychology.

Andy, what you are seeing is a reaction (hence, reactionary) movement to perceived problems (which may or may not be real) by one of those subgroups, hence they tend to wander together and form self-reinforcing attitudes. Those are extreme reactions to other movements.

What is categorised as the "left" (or mainstream left) nowadays in the West has totally given up on economics front and completely assimilated the neoclassical (and by extension, neoliberal) model. What they have left is fighting over 'petty' identity politics, that's their differentiating element from what is considered the mainstream 'right'. A lot of the perceived problems would go away with a higher economic empowerment of the 'plebs' (be them women or men, black or white), so that's why there is a reaction against identity issues, and many times that comes from fringe elements which hold a grudge and have personal issues.

This is one of the reasons got so much traction so fast: he focused on issues that matter to all that he was supposedly representing, instead of focusing on subgroups (women, men, white, black).

There is a winning recipe for the left, who has always the major alignment and back up with the majority of the population as demonstrated repeatedly by many polls, is only through media manipulation, disinformation and their own incompetency that they fail to achieve power and change things. And hence the 'far right' focuses too on identity issues and as things get worse they gain ground because that's what people does as they lose status and power: they become reactionary and blame others.

Is not rocket science, but unless we get the economics right (as Matt points above) there is no hope and the result will be a change to the right on social issues while a populist discourse on economic issues.

Bob said...

Issues are more important than labels. Which labeled group(s) will emphasize the need for a job guarantee? Which group(s) will argue against it?
A 'realist left' could raise issues that are not being raised by the current crop of social media pundits and their followers.

Matthew Franko said...

Bob you cant get to the JG except thru we're not "out of money!"....

To me that has to be foundational... but we have these prevalent libertarian (anti-authority) cognitive biases in our population so we cant see this...

First thing with the JG will be "how are you going to pay for that?" ... where the implication is thru taxes and then you lose everybody... or you will get the JG equivalent of Obamacare where it was a good idea but there is no source of munnie identified to pay for the insurance premiums by the people who need it... so we see that whole thing going down the tubes now due to "no money!"...

We have to get to the point where people look at the Fed govts authority to withdraw from the Treasury account as an absolute authority first then all of the material issues are easy...

So all out assault on libertarianism I say.... its the foundation of what is holding mankind back...

LK said...

andy blatchford said...
"Realist left" not really when you ape children like Sargon of Akkad.


We are not "aligning" with Sargon. Sargon identifies as a Classical liberal, and he is indeed confused on many issues and goes overboard on feminism.

"Regressive left" a right wing snarl term.

No, it isn't. It is a real phenomenon poisoning the left.

E.g., whenever I defend the existence of objective empirical truth or say that not mutilating girls with FGM is morally superior to actually mutilating girls with FGM, I get a flood of hysterical idiot regressive leftists outraged that anyone would think such things.

Ignacio said...

"This is one of the reasons got so much traction so fast:" -> Sanders

WillORNG said...

Civilised behaviour...logic, reason, evidence...play the ball not the player.

WillORNG said...

They used to...but things have got worse post banker crash and completely unnecessary fake killer austerity.

WillORNG said...

I got called an SJW on twitter this week...an attempted ad hominem and free speech silencing manoeuvre as far as I can see.

WillORNG said...

I got called an SJW on twitter this week...an attempted ad hominem and free speech silencing manoeuvre as far as I can see.

WillORNG said...

They used to...but things have got worse post banker crash and completely unnecessary fake killer austerity.

Andrew Anderson said...

The left should be pushing for effective government, functional finance, adequate defense, and liberty based on rights. Tom Hickey

And where does de-priviledging the banks come in?

Tom Hickey said...

The left is based on social justice, but what they entails is not agreed upon.

The right will attempt to categorize all on the left in terms of SJW because in their POV anyone that is not a social individualist is a SJW promoting "rights" based on "identity."

IN this scheme there are only Libertarians and SJW's. That's just silly.

It a correlate of the GOP charge that all Democrats favor big government, higher taxes, weaker military and less adherence too custom as a norm, and that's true to a degree.

First, there are gradations along a range between extremes and secondly, the positions are nuanced and not accurately characterized in terms of political slogans.

Marx noticed such issues and observed that the left needs to raise the consciousness of most people on the left so that they understand the issues and alternatives, enabling them to make intelligent choices and preventing them from getting sucked into tunnels that lead nowhere.

The dangers is getting stuck in endless debates and losing sight of the forest for the trees and leaves.

Six said...

Once you start complaining about getting attacked by the pro FGM crowd, you've already lost. Stand your ground for god's sake. The pro FGM crowd is right wing, for what it's worth.

Andrew Anderson said...

The dangers is getting stuck in endless debates and losing sight of the forest for the trees and leaves. Tom Hickey

Social justice or just swapping one set of thieves for another as in the case of the Soviet Union? Meanwhile government privileged private credit creation continues regardless of who rules a country.

Bob said...

Matt,

We can explain functional finance. We can lead the horse to the water. What we cannot do is allow ideologues to dominate the debate.

Sargon claims to be a rationalist, so he should be open to learning. He should be open to discarding mainstream economic ideas that are counter-factual.

andy blatchford said...

@LK
"Regressive Left" is certainly a snarl term. Sadly you can't see it.
Here it is right here

"E.g., whenever I defend the existence of objective empirical truth or say that not mutilating girls with FGM is morally superior to actually mutilating girls with FGM, I get a flood of hysterical idiot regressive leftists outraged that anyone would think such things"

Really you get a "flood" or was it just 1 comment so you now accuse the whole left of that? Put up that empirical evidence that you had a flood or stfu. Go with your buddy Sargon LK, middle aged white males...you know the feminists that want to put you in concentration camps...cos you know Birchel is so important not. As someone else said above you aren't the realist left you are an old whiney, middle aged and white left.