Saturday, June 2, 2012

Tao Jonesing —Myths, Laws, Ethics and Hidden Truths

All modern states are based on four things: myths, laws, ethics and hidden truths.....

Once the masses realize that the laws and ethics of society only bind them and not those who truly rule, the masses begin to question their myths. 
And that is when all hell breaks loose.
Read it at Tao Jonesing
Myths, Laws, Ethics and Hidden Truths
by Tao Jonesing


Matt Franko said...

This from Tao:

"As far as I am concerned, the major Western religions are all derived from the political philosophy of Plato and Aristotle,..."

I basically agree with Tao to this point (Christendom now largely corrupted by Platonic philosophy) but then Tao continues:

"and Judaism as first expressed in the Pentateuch can easily be seen as codification of the myths, laws and ethics of Plato"

Negative here perhaps just the opposite from my view.

In the days BC, under the Laws given thru Moses, Israel exhibited subjection to God thru adherence to His Laws (documented in the Pentateuch, ie first 5 books), Plato had nothing to do with it.

In fact there is a Scripture (Mat 7:13) where Jesus tells Israel: "Broad is the gate that leads to destruction" The Greek word for 'broad' here is 'plato'. ie 'Plato is the gate that leads to destruction'. And then: "31 "You, then, should not be worrying, saying, 'What may we be eating?' or 'What may we be drinking?' or 'With what may we be clothed?'
32 For for all these the nations are seeking. For aware is your heavenly Father that you need all of these.
33 Yet seek first the kingdom and its righteousness, and these all shall be added to you." Mat 6

So for Israel, they were supposed to (thru adherence to the laws) flee from the way of the nations, which included "Plato".

The nations were about the human as being the measure of all things, Zeus, Athena, etc...

The breakdown is along the lines of Cain (the nations) and Seth (Israel).

I dont see the connection between the way of Cain (Plato and Aristotle) which was insubjection, and the way of the Yahweh believing Israelites from the line of Seth...


Tom Hickey said...

Matt, there is always inter-cultural influence but I agree that Tao Jonesing's summary there is non-historical. First, Plato strongly influenced the Church Fathers, whose ideas fashioned early Christian theology, but Aristotle was largely forgotten until revived in the Middle Ages, chiefly through Thomas Aquinas, when Aristotle was reintroduced to Europe after having been preserved by the Arabs.

Hebrew scripture was influenced by Egyptian and Mesopotamian culture. See Wikipedia, Ancient Semitic religion for a short summary.

Humanists and naturalists claim that this disproves the claims to truth of revealed religions, since it can be shown how all religions are subject to evolutionary and historical influences. Liberal theologians admit influence but counter that there is no contradiction in divinity acting through history. The ultra-orthodox claim uniqueness with absolutely no influence.

Meher Baba explains how so-called supernatural revelation as the putative basis of revealed religion is a natural process that occurs through the development of consciousness as not only a key element in evolution by the purpose of evolution. What appears supernatural and miraculous at one level of consciousness is natural at a more developed level.

So in the development of religions, there is input from the environment in terms of cultural and institutional influence that are historically determined, but the kernel of the spiritual teaching comes from those who have attained a higher level of development on the scale of evolution. Clearly, they have to communicate in the idiom and custom of the times, so the teaching, while being eternal, is also historically colored. Ordinary people then focus on the colors (differences) rather than the picture as whole (unity transcending diversity and underlying it).

Matt Franko said...

"Humanists and naturalists claim that this disproves the claims to truth of revealed religions"

I might agree with them in this regard Tom (even tho I am not one of them) To me there is a lot of stuff that is "made up" if you will by Christemdom ie not scriptural ie not true (to me).

I do not claim to know much if anything at all about what is operative in the "eastern" religions. I look at theirs as a different faith that has been given to them... I do see some parallels/congruence with my faith.

I generally recoil from all of the sectarianism that has developed within Christendom. Also I look with great suspicion wrt what Aquinas brought in from Platonic philospophy.

"Beware that none despoil you through philosophy and empty seduction" Paul warned.

I enjoy these topics!!!


Tom Hickey said...

Matt, religions are coming together in terms of their common basis in spirituality. All the great teachers taught essentially the same timeless truths that are visible to those studying these things and separating out the superficial differences. What is also clear is that revelation is "natural" in the sense of being within the potential of consciousness, which scientists are now coming to see as a continuous development through evolution.

This development continues in the human form in that so-called mystical experience is not only found across history globally, but a similar experience of non-duality is reported universally also. In God Speaks, Meher Baba lays out the "theory" in terms of his own experience in terminology that spans the great traditions and he elaborates on this elsewhere, too.

This grand "idea" is now being taken seriously by philosophers, scientists and others working in the field of consciousness studies and psychologist in the field of transpersonal psychology. Along with AI, I would say this is the cutting edge in exploring the new frontier — developing individual consciousness through a scientific approach to spirituality and amplifying information use through AI. Taken together this will enable humanity to climb a further step on the evolutionary ladder, both individually and socially.

As this knowledge develops and becomes more widespread, more research is done wrt those with non-normal consciousness in addition to sub-normal, and the world shrinks due to transportation and communications technology, so that knowledge transfer is speeded on a grand scale, culture will shift also. This will entail a corresponding shift in the understanding of religion and spirituality and their manifestation culturally and institutionally, since both are evolutionary traits (David Sloan Wilson) that will continue to shape human progress through aspiration.

Will this mean profound changes in the normative religions? For sure. But that is nothing new. Scholars are well aware than none of the normative religions that survive are anywhere near close to where they were initially. Change of expression is function of time and conditions.

Matt Franko said...

"All the great teachers taught essentially the same timeless truths that are visible to those studying these things and separating out the superficial differences."

Tom, Where are these "great teachers" today?

imo they are either being suppressed or ignored or a combination of both.

Just speaking from the side of Christianity here; my belief is that many evangelists and pastors are improperly taking over the roles of teachers, and straying from truth.

In Ephesians Paul reveals that today in the body (ecclesia) we have Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers. (btw These are similar roles to Batra's 'acqusitors, laborers and intellectuals'). And in Romans Paul informs Christians that 'God does not part to each member (of the body) the same function', so these roles are supposed to be separate and distinct (nobody is truly all 3).

But then you have all of these evagelists out there on TV (think Falwell, Pat Robertson, other evangelicals and fundamentalists, etc.) dispensing falsehoods because they are NOT working with true teachers imo, or claim to be teachers also themselves which is in conflict with the scriptures. Off on their "gay marriage" rants and so forth....

Then you have the pastoral people who all they want to do is as I call it 'clean up the messes made by morons', which I agree is important, but it cant be that this is all there is to it. (What is the long term plan?)

Things are really out of joint right now and have been. I hope you see something with this 'coming together' that I dont see right now....

My hope is that true teachers can somehow re-emerge and claim their rightful place within the body (ecclesia) and straighten out these evangelists and pastors who are conducting a rogue operation that is away from teaching ultimate truth...


Tom Hickey said...

"Tom, Where are these "great teachers" today?"

Great teachers have not be widely recognized in their own time in the past, and it also takes time to distinguish the genuine. However, today, with improved communication, it is much easier to find potential candidates. Distinguishing the genuine is much more difficult. There are always adepts, saints, and masters, but discerning the true from the false is difficult and depends on one's own advancement.

Moreover, it is difficult to distinguish adepts, saints and masters from each other in order to rank them in terms of levels of consciousness. That usually only gets sorted out historically through the scope and persistence of the effect they have, which is proportional to the level of their consciousness according to the theory. In the future it will likely be possible to gauge this biologically. Some interesting work is already being done in this field.

Some come to prominence during their time, like Mother Teresa , M. K. Gandhi, and Padre Pio, but others are known only to the cognoscenti in the field of spirituality.

Moreover, the trend is away from the normative, based on doctrine, ritual, and observance toward the spiritual as personal and internal. Twentieth century German theologian Karl Rahner said, “The Christian of the future will be a mystic or will not exist at all.” Comedian Lenny Bruce joked, The people are leaving the churches in drove — and going back to God!.”

Moreover, the institutional is giving away to the communal, those sharing similar experiences. The structural is yielding to the existential. Since spirituality and religion are powerful evolutionary and cultural forces this will have a similar effect on other areas of life socially, politically and economically.