Wednesday, February 24, 2016

Libby Nelson — Nearly 20 percent of Trump’s supporters disapprove of Lincoln freeing the slaves

I don't think that this is necessarily a reflection on Trump as on the collective mindset of the US.
The New York Times took a dive into whether Donald Trump's supporters are unusually racist — or, in the newspaper's delicate phrasing, "responsive to religious, social and racial intolerance." And they came up with a stunning statistic: Nearly one in five Trump supporters didn't approve of freeing slaves in the Confederacy.
A YouGov/Economist poll in January asked respondents if they approved or disapproved of "the executive order that freed all slaves in the states that were in rebellion against the federal government."
That executive order is better known as the Emancipation Proclamation. Thirteen percent of respondents — and "nearly 20 percent of Trump supporters," the Times reports, compared with 5 percent of Marco Rubio's — said they disapproved of it.
It gets even worse. An additional 17 percent of respondents said they weren't sure.…


Matt Franko said...

So how does Booth shout "Death to Tyrants!" meanwhile the other guy says Trump is authoritarian?

Matt Franko said...

Malmo's Ghost said...

VOX is full of liberal drivel, as Lincoln did not free all slaves himself with the EP. Get your history straight old boy.

Malmo's Ghost said...

...And the 20% number is bullshit and you know it, Tom. It's likely close to 0%.

You don't like trump and we get it. But he's going to be your President too, like it or not.

Tom Hickey said...

I have repeatedly said that my highest priority is not going to war and that Trump is the least likely candidate to take the US to war. So on my chief criteria he comes out on top.

Trump doesn't score higher on other priorities, though. I prefer Bernie on them. But again, Trump would probably be my second choice on lower priorities over the rest of the field.

But that is not saying much since all of the other candidates are Establishment shills. At least a Bernie or Trump victory would upset the apple cart.

I don't particularly like the man personally, but the only candidate I like better is Bernie, but that is a matter of identity. I grew up in NY so I understand that Trump is just a hyper-New Yorker. I can identify with that. The rest I like less than Trump personally. The rest of the candidates I either dislike or (inclusive) don't identify with at all.

None of the candidates are qualified to be president since they are clueless about both government finance, economic policy, and foreign policy. HRC is not clueless about foreign policy, but she is a neocon.

Moreover, quickly after taking office they are ensconced in the Bubble and become part of "the Borg" in Pat Lang's sense. It will be pretty easy for the "experts" to roll any of them and presidents do rely heavily on experts. Bernie has the most hands-on experience with government so he would be the hardest to either fool or pressure. Trump would be hard to pressure, but not too hard to fool.

So whatever, we are screwed. It's just a matter of how bad. As I said wrt the 2008 election, if McCain wins it will be a catastrophe, and if Obama wins it will only be a a disaster.

In addition to the candidates abilities, there is also the institutional momentum to deal with, and even presidents don't have that kind of power other than in a wave election where their party overwhelming controls Congress. That's not going to happen in 2016.

Tom Hickey said...

Dan, I don't think that MMT has much of a chance politically before the next crash and burn. It's too hard a sell in the face of the collective mindset and institutional momentum. No one person can sell it, and no presidential candidate would try to reeducate the country in a presidential election, especially when he had not been taking that position previously.

It seems unlikely that there's going to be wholesale change before the system implodes. And that could result in war.

Malmo's Ghost said...

Tom, The implication with the poll is that 37% of Trump supporters are for slavery, which is absurd. If anything many people were/are skeptical of the EP's history because of it's selective scope (in particular border states were exempt), which might in part explain why people view it cynically.

Tom Hickey said...

What I think it may suggest in the context of the present is that a lot of people are uncomfortable with executive orders and see it as dictatorial. That would argue against authoritarianism.

A candidate good at persuasion presents a mirror to potential supporters on which they can project themselves and thereby identify with the candidate.

Obama did this skillfully with progressives. Trump is likely doing the same thing, and we won't see the real Trump unless and until he is elected and starts governing.

Bill said...

The Emancipation Proclamation, which is what the poll question was about, was a specific wartime tactic. It seems to me like it was a good idea. But I can see how someone who believes that freeing all the slaves was the right thing to do might be unsure about the proclamation. Or even think that it was a bad idea. I can also see how a Southerner at the time who believed in slavery might think that freeing slaves if they would fight for the Confederacy was a good idea.

The thing is, it's a lousy poll question. It may have some bearing on someone's current racism, but it muddies the waters. Imagine trying to gauge a person's belief in evolution by asking them a question about sexual selection.

nivekvb said...

When Trump stuck up for Putin my heart lifted. I've had a heavy heart of lately with the neoconservatives baying for world war.I should have read she if the news reports I've read. The Neocons think it is worth the risk trying to implode Russia.

Trump asked reporters, where's the evidenced that Putin murders his opponents? Well, they couldn't give any because it's just what they have been told.

The Western media is just propaganda. We live in the Matrix, as Paul Craig Roberts says.

MRW said...

VOX is part of the neocon campaign to get rid of Trump. Ezra Klein probably gets his marching orders in that regard every Friday night. I don’t trust any of their reporters on anything. It’s stench to me.

Current headline on HuffPo? In All Caps, red type and italic:

It was David Duke.

Did they ever refer to Senator Byrd that way? Jes’ sayin’.

From Wikipedia:
Democrat United States Senator Robert C. Byrd was a recruiter for the Klan while in his 20s and 30s, rising to the title of Kleagle and Exalted Cyclops of his local chapter. After leaving the group, Byrd spoke in favor of the Klan during his early political career. Though he claimed to have left the organization in 1943, Byrd wrote a letter in 1946 to the group's Imperial Wizard stating "The Klan is needed today as never before, and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia." Byrd defended the Klan in his 1958 U.S. Senate campaign when he was 41 years old.[3]

Despite being the only Senator to vote against both African American U.S. Supreme Court nominees (liberal Thurgood Marshall and conservative Clarence Thomas) and filibustering the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Byrd later said joining the Klan was his "greatest mistake." The NAACP gave him a 100% rating on their issues during the 108th Congress.[4] However, in a 2001 incident Byrd repeatedly used the phrase "white niggers" on a national television broadcast.[5]

This presidential campaign is getting better and better. I don’t know when I’ve enjoyed outrageous more.

Chuck Todd on MSNBC’s Morning Joe this AM. Haha.
"Chuck Todd: Hillary Will ‘Long For The Days Of Ken Starr When Running Against Trump’ [VIDEO]”

My favorite lesbo: CAMILLE PAGLIA, She is wicked smart no matter what you think of her ideas or politics. She skewers Hillary, which of course is another reason I like her.
"Fight the soulless juggernaut: Big money, machine politics and the real issue separating Sanders and Clinton"

Malmo's Ghost said...

I read the Paglia piece earlier. She is a brilliant liberal, unlike most of the MSM darlings, male or female, that are trotted out daily. The gender and race pc police with their pathetic victimhood wailing at every juncture, hate her with a passion.

MRW said...

Hey Tom, you’re on the money, imho: “Trump is likely doing the same thing, and we won't see the real Trump unless and until he is elected and starts governing.

This link is John Batchelor interviewing Fox News’s Monica Crowley, ex-Nixon Aid post-impeachment, yesterday. Batchelor laments, to put it lightly, Trump’s license with the truth. You’ll get the full context by listening from 14:26 min to 18:40, altho’ what I’m referring to starts at 16:43 min. So two minutes if you’re pressed for time.

MRW said...

Malmo: "hate her with a passion.” No shit, they’re positively venomous about her. But whether you’re a supporter or not, she always presents her arguments cogently so that you walk away with a deeper understanding of what she’s talking about. Few people can do that. I don’t care whether you’re a lib, libertarian, conservative, con man, or greenie. She only surfaces when she’s pissed. ;-)

MRW said...

Malmo’s "as Lincoln did not free all slaves himself with the EP.”

Actually, Lincoln, against his better judgment had to free the slaves because Europe had dropped the ideas that it was moral to have slave. That’s all. That’s why, imo, it didn’t stick. When the US ditched slavery in the Emancipation Proclamation (EP), Bermuda adopted it overnight. OVERNIGHT. Which resulted in former Black slaves being able to own property immediately, and changed their culture. Black Bermudians are completely different from US Blacks in temperament and sense of self. This is NOT to denigrate the US Black experience, which I consider horrific--white motel owners, in the 50s and 60s, throwing lye onto bathing Black customers in their establishments, charging Black voters $3.00 to vote in the late 1950s, early 1960s, when their daily salary was $5.00, sometimes $5.00/week, fucking shitty stuff we should hang our heads for supporting, or overlooking.

Bob said...

And now, for a little entertainment... Winter is Trumping