Saturday, March 5, 2016

Pope Sides with British Right on National Identity


This one doesn't get by Ralph.

How does this square with the Pope's previous statements about the regulation of the US/Mexico border?  How do the brains of left people work?




20 comments:

John said...

Well, I guess if the Pope agreed with the neo-fascist BNP that the sky is blue that would be touted as some sort of victory.

This Pope is a far greater humanitarian than many of his predecessors. The Pope isn't saying anything that isn't codified in law: every country can choose who can be a citizen and therefore keep its culture in tact. And the Pope isn't saying anything new either about treating the less fortunate with decency.

If this is the loony left, most people are rabid Maoists.

Bob said...

So Americans are "multiculturalists". Got it.

Bob said...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_assimilation

Matt Franko said...

I dont see how the Pope would expect a nation to retain a national culture and at the same time do not retain a national border?

If current culture is to have Adele sing at the halftime of Manchester vs. Chelsea then some day we are treated to the stoning of alleged adulterous females instead, I dont see how that would be "retaining" anything...

Maybe he thinks we can eventually evangelize all the Muslims or something...

Bob said...

If Mexico were a first world country like Canada, wouldn't most of the angst about immigration go away?

Economic migration is about... economics. And so on and so forth. How much immigration is genuinely about wanting to swap your culture for another?

Matt Franko said...

But Ignacio has made the point there that there is a large % of un/underemployed young people already resident in Europe... so it is accordingly hard to see the need for "economic" migration...

Same here I've seen young Chinese foreign workers who cant even speak English employed by Blackstone Group at Busch Gardens Williamsburg, VA meanwhile black youth unemployment in the Virginia Tidewater area is probably 35%....

Its human trafficking ... Pope seems to care less about this...

Tom Hickey said...


If Mexico were a first world country like Canada, wouldn't most of the angst about immigration go away?

Economic migration is about... economics. And so on and so forth. How much immigration is genuinely about wanting to swap your culture for another?



Not just economic or primarily economic. Neither is is chiefly cultural. I am sorry to say, but a lot of the anti-immigrant fervor is racist and xenophobic, a combination of bigotry and prejudice. It encompasses people of African, Latin, Asian including Southeast Asian, and Middle Eastern descent. And on top of that there are a number of white supremacists and white supremacist groups in the US. As in, "Taking back America."

John said...

Tom: "As in, "Taking back America.""

Absolutely. Taking it back to what and to where and for whom? Everybody's golden era is the fifties, a time when everybody knew their place and took orders from middle class white men. Sad, dangerous stuff.

For many people (although some are well meaning), all this stuff about culture is a ruse to mask the real issue of racism and xenophobia. What do people even mean by protecting their culture? No one is going to make you live another culture. Your culture stays as it is, and everyone else does likewise. Do Mexicans make Italian American or Irish American or Polish American culture impossible? Do Mormons, Scientologists, Moonies give you the creeps? How about Muslims? It wasn't that long ago that it was the Catholics and the Jews. Get over it. People with different cultures aren't out to do yours any harm. If you believe that they are, then let's start with all those Americans of Italian and Polish descent who haven't integrated into American culture quite enough for the monoculturalists liking.

Let's get along, man. Peace out.

Bob said...

Matt,

If they cannot find jobs, they can get welfare - in select European countries.

Matt Franko said...

Well Tom how can the economy be managed correctly if people are just walking right across the borders unfettered?

So look at Bernie's current plan where he is (ALLEGEDLY, I repeat ALLEGEDLY as HE hasnt said this...) imposing 15T in new taxes to control demand a la MMT... wouldnt letting millions of new people just walk into the country cause uncontrolled increases in demand as those new people coming in would naturally have to be provisioned?

So the idiot left will propose to raise taxes on people here already having jobs to put a damper on demand while at the same time just let millions walk in thus increasing demand uncontrollably...

This does not even make logical sense... not to mention it is a LOSER political approach and Sanders has no chance of even winning the Primaries....

Bob,

If they can get xfer payments if they cannot find work (which they wont as there is already high unemployment) then that increases leading flow and resultant taxes which if not managed correctly may cause "inflation!" ie prices could start to increase which is what they are allegedly trying to avoid...

MMT top enders of course wont be able to figure it out if "the deficit!" stays about the same... they would be trying to reduce the deficit thru their tax policy while the xfers being made to the new arrivals would be (to them) increasing "the deficit!"....

So this is an inconsistent policy at least and moron at worst....



Tom Hickey said...

People will cross the border as long as business is hiring.

As for Trump's plan to round up over 10 million illegals and deport them (through the legal process), what is the price tag on that?

Who is going to do the work that the guest workers by day and illegal immigrants by night are doing?

"White people" won't work at those crappy jobs for those wages. Either wages/prices would have to rise considerably or there would be a real political revolution in subsequent elections and Trump would not survive.

Who is the moran?

Malmo's Ghost said...

"...Not just economic or primarily economic. Neither is is chiefly cultural. I am sorry to say, but a lot of the anti-immigrant fervor is racist and xenophobic, a combination of bigotry and prejudice. It encompasses people of African, Latin, Asian including Southeast Asian, and Middle Eastern descent. And on top of that there are a number of white supremacists and white supremacist groups in the US. As in, "Taking back America."

The Taking back America slogan is chiefly about taking it back from the oligarchs. But nice try, Tom.

I'm sorry to say to you, Tom, but the so called anti-immigrant fervor ( your words) is chiefly cultural.

Malmo's Ghost said...

....and economic.

Tom Hickey said...

The Taking back America slogan is chiefly about taking it back from the oligarchs. But nice try, Tom.

That is the intended meaning, but a whole raft of people mean it otherwise, that is, making America look like them. Identity politics in the extreme, which is racist and xenophobic.

I don't believe that it is all cultural (acquired) either. There is also a biological basis to it in favoring kinship. It's pretty universal in nature.

Malmo's Ghost said...

Tom, here's how to have an honest discussion about race/diversity, instead of the bullshit that passes for wisdom among the elites and faux liberals among us:

http://www.unz.com/freed/diversity-a-civilizational-nightmare/

Tom Hickey said...

I don't think that there is a simple answer to this. It is the dominant theme of the 21st century globally, as it has been in the US since it's inception as the liberal melting pot.

The problem is evolutionary drag in addition to cultural preferences and biases. Owing to evolutionary drag, people as more intelligent primates are suspicious and distrustful of "the other." Differences are both natural, including gender, skin coloration, smell, sexual preference, age, etc. and acquired, like cultural and group behaviors based on social, political and economic differences based on values, norms, and ideology.

Humanity is still emerging from tribalism. Nothing wrong with that, and this emergence is net positive. Inclusivity is advancing, and intersectionality is now recognized.

However, it has, is and will involve a lot of adjusting, some of which will be quite negative.

The sooner we as a species acknowledge this and face up to the challenges, there will be conflict and rationalization instead of dealing with the issues intelligently and empathetically.

Bob said...

Diversity and segregation work as well as can be expected in a world of nation states obsessed with defending their borders. The problem is economic (e.g. poverty), which I tried to convey with the Mexico as wealthy as Canada analogy. If the US were impoverished, with large numbers of Americans seeking work abroad, they would likely be viewed with the same suspicion and disdain.

Malmo's Ghost said...

Tom, Impossible to have a color-blind society when bean counting by race is ubiquitous in virtually every facet of out lives.

As for our supposed evolutionary track towards non group identification, I call BS. History, even so called modern progressive history, says forced integration/association always bumps up against human nature and thus reality, and there's no reason to think it'll be otherwise. Doesn't mean we should not aim for a sweet spot in human interactions, but Utopian views, with no historical precedent, are simply unrealistic.

Tom Hickey said...

Liberalism is proving unworkable at the existing level of collective consciousness.

The tip off was the Declaration. All men are created equal. Then the Constitution codified slavery.

The liberal ideal was BS right out of the box.

Economic liberalism as the equivalent of political liberalism has ensured that everything went downhill from there.

John said...

Tom: "Then the Constitution codified slavery."

The pity of it all is that it still does!

Thirteenth Amendment: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

US courts can punish someone with a sentence of slavery! And that's what a huge section of the black population have effectively endured since "emancipation", with many of the rest languishing in ghettoes.

"What do we want? We want MMT for the ghettoes and the projects! When do we want it? Now!" Admittedly, it doesn't roll off the tongue.