Thursday, January 26, 2017

Trump isn’t lying, he’s bullshitting – and it’s far more dangerous

After Trump administration Press Secretary Sean Spicer rebuked the media for accurately reporting the relatively small crowds at President Donald Trump’s inauguration, senior White House aide Kellyanne Conway told NBC’s “Meet the Press” that Spicer wasn’t lying; he was simply using “alternative facts.”
"Alternative facts" = bullshit.

Not to be confused with "fake news."

The Conversation
Trump isn’t lying, he’s bullshitting – and it’s far more dangerous
Lauren Griffin | Director of External Research, College of Journalism and Communications, University of Florida

28 comments:

Matt Franko said...

The one fact was a picture of the mall at 8:30 in the morning and the alternative fact was a picture of the mall at 12 noon....

Spicer was correct....

It's a mathematical comparison and the left is unqualified to make such a determination because the left doesn't study STEM disciplines....

This person is in the Journalism Dept in the academe i.e. not technically qualified to be making this type of determination ...

Matt Franko said...

She may be competent to write it up but is obviously not qualified to make the determination...

lastgreek said...

You're walking a really fine line there, Tom ;)

I thought this was funny. It's his first day as leader of the planet (trust me, it sounds much better in Greek: "πλανητάρχης'), and all he could thing about is his hurt pride -- he with that lousy orange hair weave!

Trump pressured Park Service to find proof for his claims about inauguration crowd

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-pressured-park-service-to-back-up-his-claims-about-inauguration-crowd/2017/01/26/12a38cb8-e3fc-11e6-ba11-63c4b4fb5a63_story.html?utm_term=.49090b84f68e

Matt Franko said...

Perfect example of Title 9 corrupting the qualifications of the left here...

lastgreek said...

It's a mathematical comparison and the left is unqualified to make such a determination because the left doesn't study STEM disciplines...

OK, so you're saying that the (American) right only studies STEM disciplines. Pray tell, what does the right have to say about about climate change?

Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump

The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive. 2:15 PM - 6 Nov 2012

*facepalm*


PS: ATTRACTING MORE STUDENTS TO STEM BY TEACHING CLIMATE CHANGE

http://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2013/attracting-more-students-to-stem-by-teaching-climate-change/

Matt Franko said...

"senior White House aide Kellyanne Conway told NBC’s “Meet the Press” that Spicer wasn’t lying; he was simply using “alternative facts.”

this is the same thing you left guys do all the time when you dont understand something, you create this big conspiracy theory... its all a "neo-liberal conspiracy!" because you dont understand fully what is going on...

You guys are saying all the time that the morons are lying they are not lying they are stupid... because you dont understand it fully yourselves...

Same thing that Conway is trying to say here... the left press is stupid and cant figure it out so Conway correctly informs them that Spicer wasnt lying he was pointing out alternative facts... Chuck Todd shows a fact as a picture at 8:30 which is a fact and Spicer shows a picture at noon which is an alternative fact.. this should be a simple exchange if you are not a left moron....

this is how stupid the left is: We could have a country with 100% employment, healthcare for all, a JG, a BIG you name it.... 100M people in the nation and everybody is happy... MMT Utopia....

Then, the border is left wide open and 10M people from some hell hole nation walk in, and then the incompetent left would say, "hey! we have 10M people unemployed! 10M with no income!, no healthcare!.... ITS A NEO-LIBERAL CONSPIRACY!!!!!"

This is how stupid the left is....

the left is dumb and unqualified for material systems administration... its been corrupted by 4 rampant things: cronyism, nepotism, Title 7 and Title 9 policies....

If you want someone to manufacture 5 foot tall vagina costumes, by all means call in the Title 9 left... if you want someone to fix the water systems in Flint, MI you better call in the right...

Ryan Harris said...

Matt, What I saw the time stamps on those pictures, my jaw dropped. ALL the MSM media had been touting the picture of the empty audience as real. I saw the fake photo on WAPO first the most mainstream of mainstream without a mention about the time. But then I saw other pictures taken from other angles later in the day and realized what they had done and then figured out the time....

I assume the mainstream narrative has an element of truth, it wasn't nearly as crowded as the historic Obama inauguration, but it doesn't change the fact that the pictures were intentionally used to deceive.

If this election has taught me one thing, it is to believe nothing the media says. For every detail reported correctly, there are 10 more details the reporter's brain fabricated to fill in the blanks.

It's a miracle humans have made it in modern society without wars breaking out given how bad we are collectively at facts. There is so much potential for a cascade of unfortunate information errors in a system like ours. I think we generally under estimate the probability by a few orders.

lastgreek said...

Then, the border is left wide open and 10M people from some hell hole nation walk in...

Which country is responsible for these hell hole nations?

Matt Franko said...

Not to even mention the drug use....

Ryan Harris said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Matt Franko said...

Ryan it was even worse they had it sectioned off and you needed a pass and entrypoints at the red zone borders were blocked by protesters...

I was going to go too but got warned off...there were many assaults...

There are pictures of people west of the monument that didnt get any passes for east of the monument....

Point is this shouldnt even be an issue if there were competent people discussing it on both sides.. it was a large turnout...

Trump is going to have to have his FCC guy cut off these people's munnie if he wants to get rid of this... he may not because his war with the press is popular with his base he may really want to keep it up....

lastgreek said...

Canada is responsible. The RCMP are incompetent numpties. They've installed dictators so they could snack on cheap delicious tropical fruit in the comfort of their igloos.

The RCMP has its tentacles all over North America, especially in Arizona. No surprise then that the best dates in the world are from there :)

http://www.dateland.com/

Phoenix dactylifera, commonly known as date or date palm, is a flowering plant species in the palm family, Arecaceae, cultivated for its edible sweet fruit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_palm

Tom Hickey said...

I was listening to a scientist on NPR explaining the size of crowd estimation. Now it is done with imagery and a highly precise figure can be delivered very quickly with a small crowd but it requires considerably more analysis using imagery taken at different times to come up with a good estimate. Can take up to a week for a very large crowd to get an accurate figure that is supported with data analysis rather than just visual estimation. They were working on it at the time I heard this but have not heard a result.

lastgreek said...

Sincerely, Tom, it really isn't important.

John said...

See the time-lapse video of the inauguration:http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/360-video-time-lapse-watch-donald-trumps-inauguration/

The place isn't what you'd call full, or even half full. What's amazing is that Trump is such a brazen liar in claiming that he had the biggest crowds in history, when clearly that is not true and he knows it to be untrue. The time-lapse video shows a relatively small crowd, and the women's march or whatever it was drew far more people.

Tom Hickey said...

Sincerely, Tom, it really isn't important.

Jus' sayin' that there is a scientific way to deal with crowd size using data analysis to come up with a good estimate of totals over time, taking into consideration the difference between those who stay and those coming and going. As the man said, it is complicated and it takes awhile to get it right even with digital imagery and computer analysis. So the total any one time (stock) will be a snapshot, while the analysis will also be dynamic taking flows into account to arrive at an overall total for the event.

Six said...

It's hilarious Trump is being trolled about the size of his inauguration crowd by those he despises most. He's such a pathetic tool! It's gonna be a hilarious four years. Watching the news is finally fun again.

John said...

Lastgreek: "Sincerely, Tom, it really isn't important."

I couldn't disagree more. This is actually very important. Trump is willing to say that video footage of the inauguration is a lie and he has the truth, but with no evidence. The time-lapse video PROVES the exact opposite of what he's claiming, but he nevertheless continues to repeat the same lie. If the media has any balls they'd stay on his case until he admitted the truth. Since the media don't have the balls and will let this go, Trump will claim that he braved it out and got one over the lying liberal MSM, and he did it for the people or some such gibberish. The liberal MSM are such cowardly fools: let him get away with a brazen lie, and he'll just tell a more brazen one the following day.

Can you imagine if the shoe were on the other foot? Do you think Fox and all the other demented rightists would drop this if it were Obama's inauguration? No, they'd never let it go. They'd needle Obama until he accepted that even he himself wasn't present at his own inauguration. The rightwing media are such maniacs that they happily tell lies all day long. For the first time in decades the liberal media has the opportunity to tell the truth, and they're petrified at the sight of it. It's natural that the liberal MSM are averse, if not downright allergic, to telling the truth, but this is in their own interests to not let this go. But what do you expect, they're pussies.

Penguin pop said...

I'm with you on this one, John. There's more than one way to interpret what's going on. You can either think Trump is some kind of Master Persuader or in my eyes, someone who got his feelings hurt over losing a high school style popularity contest and won't let it go. Talk about a special snowflake himself.

Greg said...

Everyone who calls him a "Master persuader" has been masterfully persuaded themselves, thats all. They are dupes

Trump is given far too much credit as being some sort of chess player when in fact he's just a reactionary and changes the game constantly. He does try and keep people off balance but his MO is bullying. In his business dealings he ties up all his detractors with lawsuits. Nothing he does takes exceptional wit, it takes a brazen commitment to never backing down and throwing all your resources into every fight. This is not a formula for success in the job he currently holds.

Matt Franko said...

Fact: "We're out of money!"

Alternative Fact: "We're NOT out of money!"

Tom Hickey said...

I'm with you on this one, John. There's more than one way to interpret what's going on. You can either think Trump is some kind of Master Persuader or in my eyes, someone who got his feelings hurt over losing a high school style popularity contest and won't let it go. Talk about a special snowflake himself.

Regardless of whether this trivia is by design or just Trump acting out, it does create a distraction in the media from the other things that are happening meanwhile, many of which are important.

And as Scott Adams points out, it not one thing but a barrage of things that not only create distraction but divide the opposition into different interest groups instead of presenting a united front.

Whatever, it's working. The opposition is so busy being outraged, often over triviality, that they are not examining themselves and why they lost an election that should have been a pushover to win if Trump is really as bad as they believe.

The opposition is wasting time throwing stuff at Trump. They need to reorganize, prune the leadership, examine their mistakes and mount an effective opposition based on fresh ideas and new leadership. None of that is happening. They seem to be natural born losers.

John said...

Penguin: "...someone who got his feelings hurt over losing a high school style popularity contest and won't let it go."

Superb description. Imagine the next four years! The man is going to blow a gasket every time he doesn't get his way.

Greg: "Nothing he does takes exceptional wit, it takes a brazen commitment to never backing down and throwing all your resources into every fight. This is not a formula for success in the job he currently holds."

Exactly. Stiffing contractors through intimidation or declaring bankruptcy is one thing, and it isn't exactly proof of any great genius on his part by being so unscrupulous and shameless in his business ethics, although the rest of Manhattan's developers balk at such unbusinesslike tactics, but trying this goonish stuff on with your own congress, the political and institutional establishment and major countries is another thing. Even a country as weak as Mexico has decided to call him out on his empty threats. Even the CIA, the president's personal dark army, doesn't seem particularly scared by him, which is why they're leaking like a sieve.

John said...

Tom: "And as Scott Adams points out, it not one thing but a barrage of things that not only create distraction but divide the opposition into different interest groups instead of presenting a united front."

True, but there are ways of making this a problem for Trump. They should take a leaf out of Fox News's book, and just bring it up in connection to all his other lies. People should know that from the off Trump is untrustworthy, and pile the pressure on until Spicer cracks.

I would add that there is also a lot of truth to Penguin's observation that Trump's having a hissy fit over losing a high school popularity contest. If Obama did this, the rightwing media would bring out pop poms and cheerleaders to assuage his hurt feelings. Obama would have then been met with pom poms at every official gathering. You know the drill.

The reason Trump drones on about the lying liberal MSM is not because he necessarily believes it. He was the epitome of snobbish liberalism his whole life until he went birther crazy. He craves their attention and their respect, and that's probably why he has these hissy fits.

John said...

The great Patrick Cockburn, who has been reporting on unstable authoritarians for decades, writes of Trump's antics: "Trump is becoming more, not less, paranoid and extreme. His petty and incoherent speech to the CIA, his obsession with the numbers attending his inauguration, his hostility to the press and his confrontation with Mexico suggest a man not only incapable of coping with contradiction, but somewhat demented and not fully rational."

I'm with Greg and Penguin. It's a mystery why so many people are giving Trump credit where it isn't due. He isn't this Moriarty-like political prince of darkness, some dark lord of the Sith playing his numerous enemies against each other until he is emperor of the galaxy. His pettiness and volatility are being confused for Machiavellian intrigue! Trump's a rich but very lucky replica of Nixon but without the intelligence. This will become more and more clear in the coming months.

Bob said...

Good thing that there is a capable VP ready to step in :)

lastgreek said...

The great Patrick Cockburn, who has been reporting on unstable authoritarians for decades, writes of Trump's antics...

Did you read Jeffrey St. Clair's article in today's weekend edition of counterpunch? He nails it!

Roaming Charges: Populism With an Inhuman Face

http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/01/27/roaming-charges-populism-with-an-inhuman-face/


The secret of being a top-notch con man is being able to know what the mark wants, and how to make him think he’s getting it. — Ken Kesey, One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest



John said...

lastgreek, just read it, thanks. St. Clair's superb as ever. You have to wonder how much of this scorched earth, take no prisoners, smash their heads in policy is down to Bannon? And how long can it last? Four years is a mighty long time to fight non-stop battles like this.

I don't know what's more frightening: that Trump had a gilt-edged volume of Hitler's speeches by his bedside or that he never read it and instead kept it permanently close as some sort of comfort blanket.

St. Clair sums it up almost perfectly: "The strategy of the Trump presidency is to divide and subdivide, not to unite. Why? Because Trump understands that he is weak and that he is where he is only because his enemies are weaker. So he needs to keep feeding his raging base raw meat, the bloodier the better. Trump wants to agitate both his acolytes and his opposition, to stir up tumult and chaos, creating a kind of toxic fog to distract from the actual policies–a wishlist of the old right–that are being pushed forward by the likes of Paul Ryan: privatization of Social Security and Medicare, gutting of regulations on air, water and food quality, restricting abortion and family planning and slashing corporate taxes."