Wednesday, November 25, 2015

Robert Parry — Turkey Provokes Russia with Shoot-down

Turkey appears to have deliberately shot down a Russian warplane as a provocation designed to escalate tensions between NATO and Russia, a ploy that seems to have sucked in President Obama as he tries to look tough against Russia to appease his neocon critics, writes Robert Parry.
Parry thinks that Obama is getting rolled because he is "weak." I think it is still an open question as to whether the president at least signed off on the strike, if he didn't order it. There is definitely motive here for the US to act through a proxy that gets to benefit, too.

Again the question, stupid or evil? I am assuming evil. Stupid people don't get that far up the ladder. Ruthless people do.

In fairness to Parry, he goes on to show that it's evil rather than stupid or weak.
Syrian rebels, including jihadists fighting with Ahrar al-Sham, have received hundreds of U.S. TOW anti-tank missiles, apparently through Sunni regional powers with what I’ve been told was Obama’s direct approval. The jihadists have celebrated their use of TOWs to kill tank crews of the Syrian army. Yet Obama talks about every country’s right to defend its territory.
Obama and the U.S. mainstream media also have pretended that the only terrorists that need to be fought in Syria are those belonging to the Islamic State (also known as ISIS, ISIL or Daesh), but Al Qaeda’s Nusra Front and its ally, Ahrar al-Sham, which was founded in part by Al Qaeda veterans, make up the bulk of the Turkish-and-Saudi-backed Army of Conquest which was gaining ground – with the help of those American TOW missiles – until Russia intervened with air power at the request of Syrian President Assad in late September.
You read that right. The US is a state sponsor terrorism, along with KSA, Qatar and other Islamic states, apparently with the knowledge and approval of POTUS.

This is a comprehensive report and well worth the read for those who can stand to see how low the US has stooped under the regime. It's vying for dishonor with the previous regime under Darth and the Emperor.

Consortium News
Turkey Provokes Russia with Shoot-down
Robert Parry


Tom Hickey said...

Right, the guys that murdered the parachuting pilot while hanging in the air, which is a war crime.

Daily Mail (UK)

Russia unleashes heavy bombardment on region held by Turkmen rebels who chanted 'Allahu Akbar' over the dead body of pilot shot down by Turkish F-16l

You really need to cut back on the Kool-Aid, Salsabob, it's rotting your brain.

MRW said...

Salsabob, you need to read more.

Many of the "Syrian Turkmen" fighting against the Syrian people are from Central Asia and part of the terrorist groups of Jabhat al-Nusra, Ansar Al Shams, Jabhat Ansar Ad Din and Ahrar al Shams. Uighurs smuggled in from China and fighting under the "Turkistan Islamist Party" label even advertise their ‘little jihadists’ children training camps in the area. The few real Syrian Turkmen work, as even the BBC admits, together with al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups. Their leader and spokesman, one Alparslan Celik, is a Turkish citizen from Elazığ.

"Uighur jihadist group in Syria advertises ‘little jihadists'"

Matt Franko said...

It happens Tom:

Tom Hickey said...

Of course it happens, but portraying the people that do it as nice folks that Russia is targeting for no good reason is just nonsense.

Tom Hickey said...

The Turkish attack was an ambush, too.

Now Russia has its Sam's trained on the Turkish airspace. It lit up some Turkish fighters (actually NATO fighters) and now the Turkish leadership has grounded their air force.

Russia is shelling the region that Turkey was warning Russia away from right up to border. They are shutting down the porous border.

Putin wasn't kidding when he said there would be consequences.

Peter Pan said...

If Putin is as wise as some make him out to be, he will extricate his forces from this mess before it's too late. Syria cannot be held together through military force. The consequences for Russia are a renewed cold war, renewed terrorism within their borders, and future videos of Russians being abused and executed.

The cost of propping up Assad outweigh the benefits as far as I can see. The cost to the US in terms of PR is near zero if one watches the MSM. Putin and Russia are taking a pasting.

Tom Hickey said...

as far as I can see.

That's because you can't see very far. You climb up higher for a wider view.

BRW, this has zero to do with Assad. Zero.

Peter Pan said...

It has zero to do with Assad as it had zero to do with Saddam. Secular regimes in the style of Assad and Saddam are over and done with. This is a lesson the Russians will have to learn the hard way, apparently.

Tom Hickey said...

And liberalism is about creating secular regime rather than Islamist states.

Why exactly is the US anti-liberal policy-wise when it claims to be the "bastion of freedom."

GWB got is exactly right when he said "They hate our freedoms." Islamism and liberalism are contradictory opposites.

Islam is not necessarily anti-liberal however, although Islamic fundamentalism is, just as Christian, Hindu, etc. fundamentalisms are.

This is shaping up to be a major source of conflict in the world in this century and the US is on the wrong side of this in attacking secular Islamic states and promoting Islamic fundamentalism like Wahhabism, Salafism, and Takfirism if the goal of the US advancing the cause of liberalism in the world.

Peter Pan said...

Iraq demonstrates the challenge of bringing classical liberal ideas to the Middle East. It was inevitable that democracy would usher in a Shiite dominated government. What wasn't inevitable was how that government would try to build an inclusive federation. They did not try hard enough.

Syria is majority Sunni. Bringing democracy to Syria will magically result in an inclusive, pluralistic society? Similar blood-soaked history to overcome, with a tendency to not forgive or forget anytime soon. Exodus or genocide is more likely a result than inclusivity.

South Africa might be an example to follow, with their truth and reconciliation commission, but is it applicable to the parties involved here?

Partition may be the only way to have more liberal states existing alongside fundamentalist ones. But none of the major players here seem interested in it.

BTW, Iran isn't secular. They engage in their own form of religious excess.

Tom Hickey said...

Partition may be the only way to have more liberal states existing alongside fundamentalist ones. But none of the major players here seem interested in it.

There are several proponents advocating partition of Iraq and Syria. Ayatollah Ali Khamenei recently warned the West away from it.

For example, Israel would like to get the Golan and Turkey would like to take over the area adjacent to it. The Kurds want a Kurdish state carved there instead. France wants influence over its former colony.

The only group that was not being represented in the planned division was the Christians, and now Russia has steeped in on their account.

BTW, Iran isn't secular. They engage in their own form of religious excess.

Iran combines democracy and Islamism. The Ayatollah is the supreme leader.

e title is currently granted to top Shia mujtahid, after completing sat'h and kharij studies in the hawza. By then the mujtahid would be able to issue his own edicts from the sources of Islamic religious laws: the Qur'an, the Sunnah, ijmāʻ, and 'aql ("intellect", rather than the Sunnī principle of qiyas). Most of the time this is attested by an issued certificate from his teachers. The ayatollah can then teach in hawzas (shia seminaries) according to his speciality, can act as a reference for their religious questions, and act as a judge.


Tom Hickey said...

This is the latest neocon "solution" hot off the presses.

Partition Syria to crush the Islamic State: James Dobbins in USA Today

Peter Pan said...

Sure, just start calling the part that ISIS occupies a Sunni state. I doubt that this will happen, even though it would reduce bloodshed. It would also give Assad a way to save face or even continue as leader, if his constituency loves him so much.

Obama and Putin have to state that they are in favor of a partition solution, or this is going nowhere.

Tom Hickey said...

Iran is a democracy under religious law. There are similar groups in the US that want this implemented using Mosaic law. Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio among others are saying "God's law" takes precedence over human law. Same as the Ayatollah.

Tom Hickey said...

start calling the part that ISIS occupies a Sunni state

This is exactly what ISIS leaders want. It gives the Caliphate a state from which to build an empire based on attracting Muslims who take Islamic teaching literally. These people and the apocalyptic Christians that are trying to bring the endtimes and the Second Coming are on similar pages. Actually apocalyptic Islam also believes in the Second Coming under very similar circumstances.

The worst possible outcome is that ISIS actually gets a state. Then the clash of civilizations really begins in earnest.

Peter Pan said...

Mosaic Law Definition: Ancient law as set out in the first five books of the Bible (Old Testament). Related Terms: God. The name is derived from Moses who received the Ten Commandments; this and other Jewish law as set out in the aforementioned first five chapters ("books") of the Bible.

With a good dose of Leviticus?

An appeal has to be made to Muslims who want to live their lives without a fanatical leadership dragging them into more conflict. Segregation with good governance.

Tom Hickey said...

The perps are fanatical leaders, many of whom the US is supporting and in effect keeping in power.

Peter Pan said...

If there were a peace agreement, the US might have to choose between ISIS and the Saudis. The fanatics are not happy with the monarchy.

Tom Hickey said...

If there were a peace agreement, the US might have to choose between ISIS and the Saudis. The fanatics are not happy with the monarchy.

No way. The US is never going to let jihadist anywhere near the Saudi oil fields, let alone control them, which is in effect control of the global economy.

Peter Pan said...

Then that would be the US's red line. Everything else leading up to it is acceptable. Risky game they are playing. What if the Saudis were to lose control?

Salsabob said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Salsabob said...


A good start, but I suggest you broaden your reading a tad more and perhaps talk with some people who, you know, are actually from that area. You will find that there are a myriad of connections between the Turks and every player in the Region - they're not a monolith. They are microcosm of the complexity of the Muddle East where Rambo Putin has decides a few more bombs will slice through and make a lasting impression.

I'm not suggesting that any group holds the truth or a sole claim on virtue. I just find in amusing the different standards used here and the blame the West first with all things Putin on this blog.

Whether you blame him or think he's your BFF, Putin has overseen Eastern Europe running to the EU/NATO/US for protection - Stalin is rolling in his grave. Now he's closed off any southern gas route through Turkey, after Bulgaria slammed the door in his face after his Ukraine adventures. But I'll bet you dollar-to-donuts that when the Iranians and then the Chinese tell him to "talk to the hand," people here will still highlight Czar Rambo's 'brilliance' if it just wasn't for those nasty NeoCons making life so difficult.