Friday, February 28, 2020

PIONEER NEUROSCIENTISTS BELIEVED THE MIND IS MORE THAN THE BRAIN

Part 2.

In a podcast discussion with Walter Bradley Center director Robert J. Marks, neurosurgeon Michael Egnor talks about how many famous neuroscientist became dualists—that is, they concluded that there is something about human beings that goes beyond matter—based on observations they made during their work [4:24 min].

PIONEER NEUROSCIENTISTS BELIEVED THE MIND IS MORE THAN THE BRAIN

16 comments:

jrbarch said...

Esotericism has by far the more interesting hypotheses.

Being has a vehicle and that vehicle is consciousness; and consciousness has a vehicle and in our case that is the human persona. So spirit, soul, personality. Soul is a vehicle for spirit and the personality a vehicle for soul. The constitution of man is tied to the constitution of the solar system (seven planes).

For Being to exercise its powers on the planes of the soul it manifests for itself a vehicle comprised of those planes; and within this vehicle it develops the organs used to affect those planes. For soul to exercise its powers on the lower planes, it manifests for itself a vehicle comprised of those planes (the human persona); and within this vehicle it develops the organs used to affect those planes.

So to become ‘conscious’ on a plane the soul must not only have a vehicle comprised of the matter of the plane, but must have ‘evolved’ the requisite organs to manifest a power on that particular plane (e.g. sight, hearing, touch, taste, smell, on the lowest concrete planes – and their correspondences on higher planes).

Adi is the highest plane for man and pure Being; the second is the Monadic plane where the individualised Monad in man is made manifest (the spark in the Flame, who you are); the third is the Atmic; the fourth Buddhic (the plane of the soul); the fifth Manasic (the plane of mind); the sixth Astral (the plane of emotion); the seventh Physical.

Man as Being, has a monadic, buddhic, manasic, astral, and physical body. Man is in essence Atma-Buddhi-Manas.

Most human consciousness is polarised on one of the seven astral sub-planes. Many others on one of the seven manasic sub-planes (our scientists and intelligentsia). The evolutionary goal is to become fully conscious on the buddhic (plane of the heart), manasic, astral and physical planes (a master); then fully conscious on the three higher planes (a Boddha). Water runs down hill, wherever it can.

The most direct route for man is from the astral to the buddhic; from emotional sensitivity to a sensitivity of the true energy of Love - hence the importance of becoming conscious of the heart.

The lower mind in esotericism is an ‘eye’ into the lower world; intellect, maths etc, the methods of science are one of its lower functions, useful at the time. Higher mind is buddhic in nature

What mankind so desperately needs at the moment is kindness. Love heals and opens every aspect of Being to evolve and expand. Only through experience do we learn.

This hypothesis sits on the same shelf as modern science for me; but I have to say everything I have experienced in this existence lends a certain glow to the above.

Peter Pan said...

Dualism is nonsense. Dementia is real.
Destroy the brain and you destroy the mind.
There are many examples of human beings who are living vegetables.
A few, show them kindness. Most avoid them.
They are a reminder that life can be worse than death.

Matt Franko said...

"There are many examples of human beings who are living vegetables.
A few, show them kindness."

there are many more who would work with those people but those jobs dont pay very well because "out of money!".... which is a technical/cognitive problem among those who are not "vegetables" (figurative language)..

Matt Franko said...

hey JR at least you are avoiding the Art people's figurative language trap...

Youve got terminology: "a monadic, buddhic, manasic, astral, and physical" these are not figurative terms... original terms...

and youve got math/geometry: "seven planes"...

You could probably diagram that stuff....

Better approach than the most popular....

Peter Pan said...

Matt,

There are long-term care workers who have chosen that profession, and there are desperate ex-cons who can't find any other work. The latter are more likely to commit elder abuse.

Now there are people in their 30s or younger, who have fried their brains on designer drugs, and end up in LTC. They pose a greater physical threat to workers than the elderly.

Government does little but nickle and dime the issue.

Peter Pan said...

https://ochu.on.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/2019-03-26-Breaking-Point-Violence-Against-Long-term-Care-Staff.pdf

Would you want to work there?

jrbarch said...

”Dualism is nonsense. Dementia is real.”

Of one thing I am absolutely certain Bob, in all honesty and through experience, is that human consciousness can exist in its own realm, outside of the personality. Of course I realise I cannot pass this conviction to you, but I just wanted to state it.

Have you ever attended a birth, or sat by the bedside of someone passing? There is mind’s perception of things; then there is the awareness that comes from the power of feeling.

In the above ‘theoretical esotericism’ (to place it beside ‘theoretical physics’) the bodies are known as sheaths. So, the ethero-physical body dies or is shed; the astral body is shed; the mental body is shed – and the soul stands free of the persona on its own plane (higher manas). In the perennial wisdom the soul is spoken of as a thread on which the beads of personality are strung. If the soul has evolved the ‘organs’ necessary for the awareness to exist, it is cognisant of the Monad, far above it – it’s essence. Esoterically it ‘dies’ when it descends once again to the lower planes.

Linking this to the discussion on time, the four lower planes (lower manas, astral, etheric-physical) are known as ‘rupa’ – having form. The higher planes are ‘arupa’. So your creative imagination may be able to say something to you about the reality of time in this paradigm; and ponder consciousness without form. Other than that https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/time/ has entries on the nature of time as seen from the perspective of mind (intellect). Kaivey’s posts add to that perspective. I wouldn’t define certainty as an atomic clock :-) !

Matt Franko said...

Bob,

no not me... BUT... we should get adequate (maybe even MORE than adequate...) munnie to the people who WOuLD do that..

also we could design better physical systems to care for those people ( would be less drudgery than current...) if there was more munnie going into it...

the whole thing comes back to this major cognitive issue with the "out of money!" reification error that the monetarist morons keep poisoning the minds of Art Degree students in the Economics discipline...

We should arrest these people and start locking them up they are a menace to society...

the whole corona virus thing is instructive here...

Just send them to GITMO for a few years of R&R till we straighten it out... then maybe let them come back...

Matt Franko said...

JR,

"In the perennial wisdom the soul is spoken of as a thread on which the beads of personality are strung"

why dont you use the actual term here for "soul"... dont feel like you have to try to use the King James words in English (polluted with figurative language... its a market language ie good for commerce not science)

Also, the "thread on which beads are strung" is figurative language for linearity... just say "the (insert word for soul here) is linear... competent people will understand that...

iow Stick with the scientific terminology... ie dont try to dumb it down for the morons you will never get anywhere....

Peter Pan said...

Of one thing I am absolutely certain Bob, in all honesty and through experience, is that human consciousness can exist in its own realm, outside of the personality. Of course I realise I cannot pass this conviction to you, but I just wanted to state it.
If it weren't for the external environment, consciousness wouldn't exist. Perception wouldn't exist. It would be if you had a brain in a body living in a vacuum. Helen Keller had it easy when compared to that nightmare.

Have you ever attended a birth, or sat by the bedside of someone passing? There is mind’s perception of things; then there is the awareness that comes from the power of feeling.
If I were present during a birth, I'd faint. My uncle is said to have fainted at the sight of blood, so perhaps this reaction runs in the family.

In the last funeral I was dragged to, I played with the kids that were there for the same reason. I had no idea why the adults were grieving. And why would I? I didn't know the elderly relative who had died. They're weren't a part of my life.

When my parents passed away, I was less affected than normal people would be. By that time I had developed a personality disorder.

I'm aware of experiential knowledge. For example, you never learn to ride a bicycle by reading books on it.

What does this have to do with dualism?

I wouldn’t define certainty as an atomic clock :-) !
An atomic clock is a precision instrument based on a standard.
Standards are supposed to provide certainty, or at least predictability.

Peter Pan said...

Matt,

This is the culture we live in, which prioritizes other things, and looks for excuses to do so. LTC workers deserve more recognition and support. They are a rare breed.

Matt Franko said...

iow JR if you try to dumb it down ALL THE TIME you will only be as smart as your dumbest student...

Matt Franko said...

"which prioritizes other things, and looks for excuses to do so"

that is a conspiracy theory... there is NO EVIDENCE of that...

Yo the people who would do that ie prioritizes that LTC work .. are evidence that what you are saying here is FALSE...

they just need to get paid...

In figurative terms think of the unqualified, incompetent "out of money!" morons as a virus like the current corona virus.. that whole material thing is instructive here..

We need to quarantine them... separate them from success oriented society...

Let material competent people administer our material systems for a while...







Peter Pan said...

"We're out of money!" is an excuse, among other things.
The passage of National Defense Acts without nary a mention of affordability is all the evidence one needs.

jrbarch said...

why dont you use the actual term here for "soul"... [Matt]

‘Pride goeth before the fall’...

In esotericism, there are many terms for ‘soul’ in many languages; and much confusion in the transition of the esoteric to exoteric. The written word is the most difficult means of communication. A word is a mask for meaning; and meaning is a mask for significance. These days’ words are used as blinds for all sorts of motivation.

For example, the closest word to soul in common usage is the word ‘heart’. But people ‘love their dog, love their cars, love their children’ etc. There is no distinction made between the loves (likes) of the personality and the love of the heart. Love for the personality can easily be stood on its head – it just takes one little thing to go wrong. ‘I hate you; I don’t like the colour of your skin; these people are deplorables’. This is mind. The heart loves what it finds within itself – far above itself; then love for everything below that radiates from there. It never changes. It is a ‘true love’. It is pure ‘good will’. It is ‘human intelligence’. Being animates every quark and lepton; unmoving, it breathes life into the universe, including you and I.

The more accurate English word for heart~soul is Ego. But most people associate this with egoism, selfishness or the ‘I’ in the mind, rather than the higher self. And if they read this higher self is arupa - what we would describe as light, energy – then they have no frame of reference. How can the consciousness of a material personality be light - energy???

However, they can feel the heart. That is why the heart is a more direct connection to Being (the Divine) than the mind. They just don’t know what it is like to have that as a focus. People are distracted by all sorts of things. In many countries and languages you will find the ‘thread-soul’ referred to, and personalities as beads strung on the thread that is themselves. Over the ages, some stories enter deeply into human consciousness.

The Arts (music, art, literature) reach into the soul and cause it to respond; the Sciences focus the mind - and the soul too responds, to a new and concentrated rhythm. Both are necessary and aspects of the same one consciousness. Some of the greatest mystics in the world today are theoretical physicists; or philosophers like Tom. Their heart beats too. Their ‘knowledge’ is a path to what is inside of them. The focus shifts and extroverts become introverts (in a good way).

All loads lead to loam. Everything in this world leads to the heart. Suffering happens when we are heading in the wrong direction. The heart is always our good friend and has never ever, in our lives, let us down. Mind will lead you out into a desert and dump you there – then turn around and blame you. The heart will always take you closer to yourself. Lift you and inspire you. Mind is not our friend and that is why we need control over it. Only the heart in man is more powerful than the mind. That is why we have to focus.

Peter Pan said...

In regard to bad singers and musicians, they are said to have no soul.
No passion ~ no soul.

Words have definitions. They can be looked up in a dictionary.
Given the context, what other term is there for soul, but spirit?
It is an 'actual term' but not a technical term.

Behavior is more powerful than thought.
The enlightenment of a few is no match for the behavior of many.
And so it is that human beings, in their multitude, devour life on Earth.
And in our spare time, we write about it.

Some say it's a sad chronicle, of what might have been.
Others say good riddance, it is high time for the human pestilence to take its exit.
But those are just sentiments.
They don't amount to anything.