Sunday, October 18, 2015

Steve Roth — Thinking about Value, and the National Accounts

The implication: as with any economic model, to understand what you’re seeing, you need to look not only at the results presented within the model, but at the model itself. You need to (at least) consider not just potential errors within a model, but model error itself. To get very philosophical: National account structures are, ultimately, epistemological structures — systems for trying to “know” things.
The national accounts, by their very status and position, discourage examination of their model. The notion that they’re “just accounting,” adding and subtracting straightforward measures, reifies them, and the model they present. The assumptions underlying that model are rendered invisible, apotheosized as god-given truths.
National-accounting sages are very much aware of this reality. Check out Jorgenson, Hulten, Hall, etc. on the “zero-rent” economic model that lies (hidden) at the core of the national accounts as constructed. (They mostly argue: appropriately so.) Or spend some time in that Interfluidity comments thread. If you haven’t thought critically and carefully about the national accounts’ economic model, you don’t understand the national accounts. (I’m not, by the way, claiming that I do. Despite lengthy exertions. Necessary versus sufficient and all that.)
That goes for any model. Models are epistemological structures for organizing understanding. Humans necessarily think in models and metaphors. Highly developed models may use high levels of abstraction and be considerably removed from experience. As a consequence, without logical analysis the working of the model may be misunderstood. A model might in saying either more or less than is generally understood in its interpretation.

Since economic models are largely based on market prices, they are heavily dependent on accounting. But many people using them are not experts in accounting and come to erroneous conclusions. Even experts disagree over what the accounting implies. The issue is epistemological, on one hand, dealing with knowledge — how we know and what we know — and also logical, as Ludwig Wittgenstein sought to show.

A descriptive proposition is a model of reality, the logic of which is similar to a map or picture, as Wittgenstein showed in the Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus. In Philosophical Investigations and notes published posthumously by his literary executors, he explored how even the logic of apparently descriptive statements that are putative about facts can function as norms in a logical framework in that they are privileged from error, making them criteria for the justification of other statements, which become subordinate to them. Failing to see the deep logic involved can "bewitch" intelligence and rigorous logical analysis is the "therapy" for it.

Steve Roth is correct about the need to penetrate the foundations of models, which lie in definitions, rules, and assumptions, explicit and hidden. National accounts involve a high degree of abstraction, for instance, and a temptation is to reify matters in ways that lead to confusion, for example.

One has to think one's way through these thickets to gain understanding, and one is greatly helped by doing it with others. I've learned a lot reading the comments at his place and at Interfluidity, where many smart and knowledgeable people contribute.

Asymptosis
Thinking about Value, and the National Accounts
Steve Roth

5 comments:

NeilW said...

The main problem with the national accounts is that they are national.

That is merely an accounting policy in an era of free movement of capital, and it has the effect of artificially creating 'dollars' in the accounts - by pricing foreign financial assets denominated in foreign currencies in the reporting currency.

So when you're trying to analyse the effect on a currency zone of the flow of funds, your financial account is slightly skewed because some of the elements in it assume a convertible currency.

Matt Franko said...

"National accounts involve a high degree of abstraction"

How so Tom? I dont see that at all... the quantities documented there seem pretty straight forward...

Here's a definition: "the act of considering something as a general quality or characteristic, apart from concrete realities, specific objects, or actual instances."

What is not concrete about adding up the $ amounts applied to things real and financial?

Tom Hickey said...

Aggregates used in national accounting are based largely on estimates based on accounting records rather than counting units of real stuff. There's no practical way to disaggregate.

Matt Franko said...

Tom this seems like some sort of left-wing smokescreen for Picketty's BS sophomoric "taxing wealth" as the source of funds...

trying to over-complicate some pretty simple non-abstract stuff...

If a farmer has 10 steer @ 1000 lbs and the local auction just got $200/hundred-weight then the farmer can surely value his herd at $20,000... and this is NOT an abstraction at least in the modern context...

Look here is Roth: "I took exactly one accounting class in my life,"

So the guy has just discovered Accounting good for him.

Is this a significant revelation? (maybe for him?)

There are Accounting departments in the academe that all they do is train people in accounting and they pound out 10's of thousands of graduates every year...

Who is this guy's audience for this tripe? Other know-nothings?

Tom Hickey said...

It took Scott Fulllwiler spending some time with him to set Steve Keen straight.

National accounting is not obvious even to smart people. If it is understandable only to those who are experts in national accounting and they never explain it so that other people cant understand it, we are in trouble.

Understanding balance sheets and incomes statements isn't simple for those that aren't financial analysts. It's pretty easy to make the figures tell a story and the analysts job is to ferret out the correct story.