Tuesday, October 18, 2016

Bill Mitchell — Australian national broadcaster gives ignorance the national stage

There’s no such thing as Government money. There’s your money and my money. And that’s where the money comes from – it comes out of our pockets…
This is on a news program, not from a comedy show. Beyond Moronism.

Bill Mitchell – billy blog
Australian national broadcaster gives ignorance the national stage
Bill Mitchell | Professor in Economics and Director of the Centre of Full Employment and Equity (CofFEE), at University of Newcastle, NSW, Australia

20 comments:

Matt Franko said...

It's textbook libertarianism 101....

Tom Hickey said...

I'd say it is Moronism. Cant the guy read what is printed on the bills in his wallet?

Calgacus said...

One should see this as a good sign. This moronism is implicit in all of modern mainstream economics and politics. Such stupidities - "the emperor's new clothes are beautiful!" - are usually articulated just before everyone starts listening to "he isn't wearing any."

Tom Hickey said...

Let's hope.

But I think you may be right. The level of desperation seems to be setting it. It's just not working for them anymore.

TofuNFiatRGood4U said...

Moronism can go on for a long time ...

The ABC, BBC, NPR--they're all vermin. (Actually, that's an insult to vermin.)

The ABC actually ran Azov Battalion video on the news one day in 2014, as though it were normal to have the 2nd SS Panzer Division's logo on our TVs.

75 years ago, it would have been treason.

Matthew Franko said...

"Cant the guy read "

It was a female Tom.... females can be big libertarians too look at Ayn Rand...

Look at her pronouns:

"There’s no such thing as Government money. There’s your money and my money. And that’s where the money comes from – it comes out of our pockets. So in reality there’s one person in this world that can guarantee a happy future for you and that person stares at you in the mirror every morning. And I’ve been sacked from jobs, I’ve started my own businesses, I’ve had flops, I’ve had successes. And the thing is I believe that it is every single one of us just has to work out, there is something I’m good at. "

Singular pronouns: your, my, one, you, you, I've, I've, I've, I, single one, I'm....

Think of geometry BUT... subtract the lines and planes leaving only the points.... this is how these libertarian people think...

Paul in corrective mode here: "As to the faith, they swerve" 1 Tim 6

'swerve' is from astocheó which means 'un-in a row' (ie a set of non-linear points)

Its where we get the word 'stochastic' in the first place... these are the stochastic people...

So you can see these people are ALLLLL f-ed up....





Matthew Franko said...

Bill is conflating 'faith' with 'belief':

"The natural right approach relies on faith to motivate the conclusions – that is, some prior religious belief or precept. The calls for full employment based on various Papal Encyclicals (for example, Rerum Novarum , 1891; Laborem Exercens, 1981) and other Catholic writings fit into this approach. The content depends on the prior faith.

While the Christian Democratic ideals embodied in the All Souls concept in Catholicism provide a firm basis for solidarity or collective will in society and thus a justification for government intervention to drive unemployment to its irreducible minimum, they still require one to accept the prior belief system.

However, the conclusions can be separated from the prior beliefs and be based in the empirical, causal level of perception."

One's faith is measured by one's ability to perceive/understand authority... and authority is a linear concept... Paul taught it is not 'astochean' or 'UN-in a row'... ie authority is non-stochastic...

So Bill of course can use his empirical ability of perception of authority here: 'and be based in the empirical... perception...' iow Bill can perceive authority ie Bill has a well above average measure of 'faith'...

Just like the Lord observed the large measure of faith in the centurion who could perceive authority in Luke 7:9

But the libertarians, ie the stochastic people among us, ie the goat people, ie the morons ... ie the geometry sans lines/planes people.... simply cannot... they just dont have the cognitive ability ...

Maybe require them to take an intensive course in geometry and really pound on the linear analysis and planar (2D/3D) analysis? Maybe that would help them? Maybe then they would develop this ability?

Bob said...

There are probably mathematicians who are libertarian... ideology knows no bounds.

Ignacio said...

"There’s your money and my money. And that’s where the money comes from – it comes out of our pockets."

Wow, such load of non-sense, this woman thinks money grows on trees or is a mineral that cna be extracted from ground. Closet gold-bug.


Bob exactly right, PLENTY of engineers and scientists and mathematicians who are libertarians and/or 'run out of money'.

Matt believes is about cognitive ability, I believe is a huge cognitive bias, not so much a problem of ability (kids can perform complex enough operations to intuitively understand monetary operations).

there is a 'corruption' of thought on the young adult period that establishes strong libertarian biases (IMO it has to do with the whole concept of 'working for a living', figure how people who does not have to 'work for a living' or have certain financial security usually can analyze economic systems from a more neutral and objective point of view).

Is a problem of corruption o0f thought and wrong education.

Ignacio said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ignacio said...

The more sophisticated ones when pushed and pressured will fall on 'hyperinflation!' hyperventilation and convoluted schemes and explanations to circumvent their biase...

As well as fall on monetarist thinking ("monetary base exploding!" -> hyperinflation in the future.... some day), if they don't really understand monetary operations and the different transmission channels (they DON'T as they have a poor understanding of how real financing works and fall on loanable funds theory).

Ignacio said...

And the thing is I believe that it is every single one of us just has to work out, there is something I’m good at.

Denotes complete inability to analyze systems. Matt observation about pronouns above is pertinent. Useless, corrupted, thought.

Ignacio said...

females can be big libertarians too look at Ayn Rand...

Thatcher was one of the starters of neoliberalism death cult thanks to oil dependency. And the problem is neoliberals haven't really solved the supply problems there were back then, our system still has HUGE dependence on unlimited supply of carbon-based energy.

So the idea that the private sector would solve any supply problems was completely useless and wrong. They are all over the place with 'survival of the fittest' and 'throw everybody who is not me under the bus' ideology, is what is really about, everything else is just a distraction.

(An other 'corruption' of behavior that happens when young, damaged goods.)

Tom Hickey said...

So you can see these people are ALLLLL f-ed up....

No argument there, Matt. Jus' sayin' that the comment about money is moronic rather than Libertarian. The Libs think that gold is real money and paper is "funny money," as Bob Roddis keeps reminding us. .

Matt Franko said...

Ignacio,

But what about some sort of exercise they might be able to do to train for this?

iow do you think they could be trained thru like math exercises that would result in changes in their cognitive abilities?

And I'm not talking about some sort of 'rote' process I'm thinking of some sort of 'active learning' process...

iow NOT giving them an assignment to stay after school and write on the black board "we're not out of money... we're not out of money...we're not out of money....we're not out of money..." 1,000 times.... i dont think that would work...

It would have to be some sort of basic training in math of linear systems or something.... that would then have a more basic cognitive effect?

do you think that would work? or are they already too far gone to be re-trained?

Ignacio said...

It's possible Matt, all cognitive dissonance is possible to 'break throuht'. I'm sure there are a lot of 'success stories' in the MMT camp, not unusual to read "I used to be a ...". But sometimes it takes a catalyst for people to "see the light", a sequence of events that force them to re-examine the situation with a new perspective and open up to other than their previously established assumptions. There will be the hardcore ideologues, but most of the population is flexible enough to change mind in face of enough evidence.

There is people who is better predisposed for change of thought. In this case, those who are analytically inclined (amongst them a lot probably are into disciplines you mentioned above) and able to systematically analyze problems, but we are talking about 15% top (probably being generous, more likely 10%-5%) of the general population.

Changing the minds of those who are driven by 'guts' is way harder (the large majority), once a thought sticks, it sticks for good and it takes a huge amount of evidence to change it. The added problem is when that thought permeates a believe system in a way that is central to the perception of the world. In the case of money and politics we can see a lot of expected behavior from individuals comes from the concepts of work, money, etc. so understanding of those concepts are at core of perception of society and behavior (hence you get stupid declarations like the woman above, as you observed an obsession with "me", "I", etc. no systemic view here, is all about personal perception, this is how most people works unfortunately).

The best way would be actual evidence, as people change its mind about something social pressure (which is the other big thing to form up consensus and believe) forces others to look up for the evidence and change their mind.

The problem is that evidence is obfuscated by useless and mindless media and politicians, so we end up in a situation where people that could be enlightened has a very hard time because easy to come evidence which is accepted socially is hard to come by (the key being 'socially acceptable').

The moment the facts were socially acceptable everything would cascade and we would reach a new social consensus on certain things. So in a sense is a question of reaching a critical mass, is more about social education than individual training of sorts.


Can you train people to think more analytically, systematically, etc.? Yes it's possible, but unfortunately re-training on the way of thinking for adults is really limited, this is why good education until the age of 20-22 is so important, is mostly by then on how your brain is formed on how to view the world (that's why maybe yes, there is a higher percentage of people more open to accepting change of mind amongst technical and scientific fields).

But the most important skill for this is not really mathematical training IMO, but teaching to people that you can be wrong and sometimes have to change mind, as you say sometimes: reset to freaking t=0, don't act like an economist. If we teach this to every kid we would be in a better position, old people, well, for the majority of them, the oldest, the more hopeless (but this ain't universally true beware, because some has predisposition to be able to change thought if necessary).

Matt Franko said...

", but we are talking about 15% top (probably being generous, more likely 10%-5%) of the general population."

That's what I am afraid of.... gotta be a way around this somehow...

Ignacio said...

There is but it takes control of the media and politics.

In other words things have to get worse to get better, because otherwise the show of evidence won't be enough for a new social consensus.

Unfortunately at that point all sort of outcomes are possible because is a competition between narratives and all sort of wrong explanations of causality can take place.

You can end up with the explanation that "the lack of demand is because jews are stealing it all away", or "the lack of demand is because the government is stealing it all away". If you see what I mean... and once a new social consensus is achieved, it takes a lot to be broken (as we see...).

Tom Hickey said...

It's not even "math smarts." Mathematics is about proofs in the eyes of professional mathematicians. What we are talking about is word problems in math. This is where engineers excel at the pro level.

Matthew Franko said...

But Tom those people can be trained to be that way imo... from what I have seen/experienced... you have to just grind thru it at times... imo the purely secular/cognitive deficiency Bill alludes to is somehow "math" related...

Ignacio I will keep playing the $200M+ lotteries over here... Maybe there has to be created a full out assault on libertarianism... would need $200M (minimum!) for an anti-libertarian Think Tank to counter the Cato/AEI/Mercatus/Peterson etc moron factories...