Saturday, July 14, 2012
New Media: Tarpley vs Kokesh vs Buildaburger Group
Alternative media debate between Tarpley and Kokesh at Occupy Buildaburger last month embedded below (small amount of vulgarity).
Long. Many of the same issues we have been discussing lately here at MNE come up in a pretty far ranging discussion that hits Libertarianism, Institutionalism, Ron Paul's dangerous fiscal proposals, Hayek, von Mises, the emerging Syriza party in Greece, the 2012 US Presidential elections and more!
I can't help but feel that what is missing from this discussion on BOTH sides is a competent understanding of how our monetary economy operates and hence both sides here are way out of the MMT paradigm and ironically, the false issue concerning the fiscal deficit is about the only thing these two main characters end up in agreement on.
I'd even surmise that the morons in the Buildaburger Group, that these two semi-conspiracy theorists are here to observe, don't have the faintest idea of how our western monetary economies operate and while these two are outside and clueless in this regard, the group in this secretive meeting is in the hotel discussing nonsensical concerns about among other things the US and European debt and deficits.
Three blind mice. Two blind mice here, supposedly watching the third blind mice in the Buildaburger Group; some may find this video entertaining in any regard.
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23 comments:
Dr. Tarpley is a traditional deficit dove but never the less his proposal of increasing federal spending spending by a trillion or so dollars to fund public infrastructure and CCCs is almost exactly what MMT says we should do and isn't exactly original.
I really believe that Dr. Tarpley might be able to be converted to the MMT side. He has been known to change his mind on such issues as the legality of Obamacare's mandate.
The libertarian is out to lunch as usual. Not being an MMTer, Dr, Tarpley didn't address the bogus anti-government spending arguments as effectively as Bill Mitchell and Randy Wrey would have.
I found it disappointing that Tarpley didn't point out Kokesh's calls for weaker and more localized government is the same as Brzezinski/Bilberburg alleged goals of Imperial corporate policy toward a Middle East and Africa of weak states/ regional governance and thereby demonstrating that Kokesh's libertarian goals are exactly the same as the Buildaburger's world corporate governance goals that Kokesh is allegedly protesting.
P.S. Dr. Tarpley is currently calling for the organization of National Emergency Anti-Austerity conference to air on CSPAN and as much media we can get the attention of by various community and worker leaders as well as economists. You may not like Tarpley but that is a good idea.
We should certainly try and do a big anti-austerity media and protest/event. A bigger and louder American version of the Italian anti-austerity and anti-TINA conference.
I would have thought some of those buildaburger people have a pretty good understanding of the monetary system and the global economy. But they realise that it all comes down to power plays between different interest groups. They've put their lot in with the current elite, for whatever reason.
I see you're still using the very christian term 'moron' to describe your fellow man.
If you think they are three blind mice you should have watched CNBC the other morning when Warren Buffet, Simson, and Bowles discussed how to cut the deficit. I was thinking the same thing while watching them, three blind mice.
y,
"very christian term 'moron'"
Good catch.
Matthew 23 is one of my favorite scriptures as you can tell.
Here are some key excerpts:
13 "Now woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
16 "Woe to you, blind guides!
17 Stupid (ie moron ;) ) and blind!
19 Stupid and blind!
23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
26 Blind Pharisee!
33 "Serpents! Progeny of vipers!
[I often think that was the then equivalent of calling them sons-of-bitches or MFers, ie "You dumb, blind son-of-a-bitch morons!" Righteous!]
Yes as you can tell I often try to stick with scriptural terms and am influenced by the example of the Lord.
Resp,
Septeus,
Yes Tarpley seems like he is more reasonable and I wish he could be made to understand our western monetary systems via MMT. I think he could gain from that...
And young Adam there is imo naive (Tarpley basically is trying to tell him that) and is falling for the Libertarian dogma so it is not clear if he would modify his position even if he was made to understand MMT... he may be caught up in the gold standard as many Libertarians are and is just flat out rejecting all types of govt institutions...
Resp,
GLH,
Yes I heard that on XM and it was painful.
Dont forget Honorable Mention for the moderator Ms. Quick so perhaps 4 blind (scriptural term) mice.
Resp,
Septeus,
"You may not like Tarpley"
I didnt say I didnt like him.
It's just that he is for some reason remaining blind to the truth of how our state currency systems (scriptural term: 'nomisma') work.
My approach is to try my best to expose this blindness in people. (no sugar coating it, see the example the Lord set in my above comment to y)
Perhaps some will see what I am saying about them and have the truth revealed (uncovered) for them in this regard. Or perhaps others who read what I say about these morons might have the truth revealed to them.
Paul to Timothy: "Expose, rebuke and entreat." .... I'm trying to "expose".
Resp,
Matt,
"If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her"
I think "Matthew" gets to do that. "Matt", I'm not so sure.
y
Being made stupid and blind was not against the Mosaic Law and nobody is advocating to "stone" somebody for so-called "sinning", which I myself am already dead to.
If feathers are ruffled in the process of dispensing the truth in Christ then TOO BAD for those whose egos are bruised. This is the irrefutable scriptural example set by both the Lord and His Apostle to the nations Paul.
Listen to Tarpley in the video, we have morons at the highest levels of govt currently advocating draconian cuts in govt economic support programs when approaching 50M of fellow US citizens depend on them. He may not be exaggerating when he describes this as proposing genocide.
Just the other day Tom posted a story where some poor fellow died from a toothache (no heathcare)... it's 2012 for crying out loud!
All because these so-called "leaders" are STUPID and BLIND HYPOCRITE MORONS! (to stick with the scriptural terminology)
This is SERIOUS shit.
I am led to believe that some who read what I write here in this regard will have the truth uncovered for them.
You may also be in truth in this but it is far from over imo. If you dont like what you see in this regard then dont look, it may not be for you.
Resp,
Look at Tarpley's 5 point plan he seems to be Harnessing the advantages of mmt more than mmter's. Seems like Mike Norman would be all for it considering his interview on captains of industry.
http://tarpley.net/five-point-program.pdf
It makes the 8 dollar an hour job seem like mmter's think we have financial problems, $8 is all we can afford until the private sector loves us again. How is an $8 an hour job going to stimulate aggregate demand , it is barley subsistence wages for a single person let alone a family. Not a very good allocation of human resources either. Unemployed engineers and scientists are going to sweep sidewalks for $8 instead of building bridges and finding cures?
His anti-austerity conference seems something MMT should be running to. What a better way to inform people who want to apply the obvious implications of MMT, but can't defend against the "out of money" crowd. He's right on one thing for sure, that nothing well get done without mass organization. MMT needs a win. Not one policy or politician elected on a MMT based platform. Changes in economic policy are never won on its technical correctness, but on there mass appeal. MMT has uber-mass potential in this area. Instead of attempts to gain mass appeal, time is wasted on technical descriptions, end fighting with Krugman austrains and others. So why not bring your ideas and technical descriptions to an anti austerity conference. It would seem from Tarpley's 5 point plan he is neither blind or a moron. He just doesn't wast time ( or knows)with technical details.
Here is Tarpley debating a Libertarian (austrian) she is very entertaining to say the least.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK6y2fRddsk
miller,
"Unemployed engineers and scientists are going to sweep sidewalks for $8 instead of building bridges and finding cures?"
Good point!
As far as Tarpley being blind, he IS currently, he believes "money" is exogenous and the US Treasury has to borrow and the deficit is a "problem". That said, it CAN change for him.
MMT is not a political movement as far as I look at it. It is more like a school within the academe of economics. MMT is not a political party, etc...
First the political class like Tarpley have to be made to understand that they have a major problem with their economic understanding, ie "money" is not exogenous, etc. This has to be exposed to them.
Then, if they can get their ego in check, they will engage academically with MMT to educate themselves about how our monetary economy really operates and THEN the politics can start but with people involved who now know what is going on... this looks like how it can proceed.
MMT folks are "getting out there" and trying to educate as many folks as possible (really globally) with very little if any resources and they are still having success.
Progress is being made imo... will check out this Tarpley conference....
Resp,
miller,
Tarpley at 11:00 mark makes the point that the US deficit "can get out of control" if we try to spend too much... this is what I mean with him... he thinks the USD balances are created exogenously... blinded.
rsp,
miller,
16:00 now he says the deficit is "overblown" by the Tea Party and we should issue 100 yr bonds collateralized by US real assets: oh brother!
Libertarian lady says we are "printing money" she has the Libertariain/Austrian talking points down pat...
rsp,
miller,
The green party lady wants rail but wants it to be privately owned so it doesnt cost the govt "money".. oh brother!
Morons galore!
rsp,
The green party lady wants rail but wants it to be privately owned so it doesnt cost the govt "money"
As Bill Mitchell recently said, greenies are "neo-liberals on bikes."
ok, you win Matt!
y,
This blindness to the reality of how a state currency system operates is a lot of what we are up against in this at core.
Here is the interlinear of Mat 23:
http://scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/mat23.pdf
The word He used was 'moroi' which they have here as 'insipid ones!" or "stupid ones!"
Here is the etymology of the Greek word:
http://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/koinonia/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=476
If we dont point this out to these people, how will they know that they are blind and stupid (moron) in this regard? (As always, I am using these two words 'blind' and 'stupid' in the Biblical sense, not the pejorative reactionary sense)
First step in healing is a correct diagnosis.
rsp,
As Bill Mitchell recently said, greenies are "neo-liberals on bikes."
Great Line.
As for the conference it was more of organizing idea he has talked about... I'm not sure about what he has done on his end. I know that he is friends with Eric Draitser
who was a leader of sort within the OWS's "Jobs for All" committee so we might able to contact him about some of OWS people he knows.
I'm pretty sure that the single message of anti-Austerity we could get Michael Hudson, Ellen Brown,Bill Black, the AMI, Yves Smith, even Max Keiser might go along. They aren't necessarily MMT but have pretty good community organizing skills and media contacts. If we are lucky we might even get a few heavy weights like Jamie Galbraith.
We might also be able to find some of the more "radical" unions like the Nurses and Steelworkers. We need educate the Doves and turn them into Owls and to do that we need to have a start a dialogue with them.
As for the financing we might be able to crowd fund but I'm not to sure about the rules sites like Kicker Starter have for political events.
It's time to get off the internets and get big and very loud and in the media and government's lying faces.
Septeus,
for instance if the Greens could reach an understanding of how states can operate under a FFNC or 'state currency system' they would realize that the oppositions argument that "we cant afford to do things without pillaging the environment" was a moron argument and then take a more realistic approach...
rsp,
Sept,
many "doves" are going to have to eat a truckload of humble pie in order to become "owls". I may put Tarpley in the "dove" category based on what he says in this video.
I have seen no evidence so far that ANY, ie NOT ONE, of them is willing to admit that they've had this wrong all along.... HUGE egos holding them back.
And many of them really have not been involved within the academe of economics specifically in monetary systems/operations so what's the problem with just admitting that you learned something from a fellow academician who specializes in this area? To me it's basically disrespectful of their peers and of the institution of the academe in general.
Why do they insist on remaining a moron dove? It's irrational at best.
rsp,
Matt -- Maybe not so irrational: A person cannot (or will not) change their way of thinking if their paycheck depends on that way of thinking.
(Paraphrased from somewhere :)
Right John there is massive corruption... again just like the Pharisees...
Non Sequitir
Tarpley breaks down the finances wrt Ron Pauls cuts to food programs.
Tarpley indicates that Paul proposes cuts to 50 cents per meal which means "beans and spaghetti" which is a recipe for Ricketts, Pallagra, and Scurvy. And goes on to coin a term for Ron Paul as "Pallagra Paul"... consider that one stolen!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pellagra
rsp
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