Monday, December 5, 2016

Jeremiah Jones — Oil Company Responds To US Army Corps’ Announcement, Will Continue To Proceed With Pipeline

Don't celebrate the Army Corps of Engineers decision too early.

The flip side is that this is shaping up into something like the civil rights movement of the Sixties with both national and international implications. Occupy was just the first gun being fired in a conflict that is likely to take place over the 2020's that reshapes the face of US politics and culture.

Counter Current News
Oil Company Responds To US Army Corps’ Announcement, Will Continue To Proceed With Pipeline
Jeremiah Jones


joe said...

please dont lump these pathetic liberal idiots with the civil rights movement of the 60's. Not even close.

Tom Hickey said...

Have you considered that perhaps you have not considered the dynamic in full.

The Sixties had a lot of inputs and interest groups. The process began publicly when Mario Savio took up a bullhorn on the steps of the UC Berkeley campus in 1964. It was the bullhorn heard around the world. The uprising was multifarious but basically united against the Establishment. It eventually led to the resignation of President Nixon and the end of the Vietnam War with an ignominiously defeat of America that America "patriots" blamed on a backstabbing left.

The upshot was a wholesale shift in American culture called the countercultural revolution. The outcome of that revolution is driving US politics today as the "other side" pushes back strongly.

There have been three major events so far in the public unfolding of this. First was the uprising of Occupy. The next was the furor over Piketty's Capital and the rising interest in inequality. This was a result of the financial crisis but it was a long time building.

The third is the "Indian uprising" over DAPL, which has gone viral internationally and represents white repression of minorities as will as capitalist exploitation of the environment for profit.

This puts this on the course of the previous "uprising" and cultural shift at about 1965, with the Civil Rights movement.

There is still a long way to go. This is just the beginning.

MRW said...

The third is the "Indian uprising" over DAPL, which ... represents white repression of minorities as will as capitalist exploitation of the environment for profit.

What minorities? The proposed final leg of the pipeline--the object of all this angst--is not on Indian land. The land the pipeline is buried in is owned by the pipeline company, not the Indians, and is across the Missouri river (Lake Oahe) from Standing Rock res and the current camp of protestors . The pipeline proposes running this pipeline 70 ft under a section of the lake. Lake Oahe is really the Missouri River turned into Lake Oahe by a dam in JFK's era, I think) from Pierre, SD to Bismarck, ND. It's huge. When that dam was created 200,000 acres of Indian land was flooded forever along the shores of the Missouri.

The federal government owns the land the pipeline compny is seeking an easement for. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers should have done a full environmental impact study, instead of fast-tracking the approval. Now they decide o do it.

capitalist exploitation of the environment for profit. So is a dam, or tollway.

Pipelines are waaay safer than trains or trucks. And underground pipelines are the safest. Europe's pipeline infrastructure map looks like geographical netting across Europe--can't find the link, it's amazing--compared to ours, traverses highly environmentally-aware and politically senstitive countries, and the pipelines are buried under mountains, rivers, and historical sites, in pristine landscapes and rural/urban areas, and near drinking water reservoirs, and energy sources. It seems to be that only US pipelines bust up at the rate they do, or spring leaks and destroy huge swathes of land that could have been avoided, or are never maintained properly and show staggering neglect on the part of the owner. These pipeline owners don't suffer any consequences for failing to maintain them. They scream "fossil fuel"along with the bobbleheads when these pipelines burst, as if the content of the pipe is the issue, diverting attention from the fact that they are negligent and incompetent. it's not fossil fuel, it's fucking failure.

Bob said...

Are there examples of nearly completed pipelines being scuttled?

Tom Hickey said...

MRW, perception is reality.

What the world is seeing is militarized police and private security agents beating on Native Americans. While this doesn't appear in the US mainstream media it is all over social media and repercussions are manifesting worldwide agains the US "police state" that looks just like other police states.

Same in Syria but reversed. The "news" out of Aleppo in the US media is sourced from "our guys" and purports to show that "Assad and Putin" are purposely bombing hospitals and targeting kids, with the help of Iran and Hezbollah.

Issues are for losers. Perception is reality.

MRW said...

What the world is seeing is militarized police and private security agents beating on Native Americans.

Correct. I know this because I am an Indian, legally, according to both North Americans governments: US and Canadian. A First Nation Mohawk, Tyendinaga Mohawk. Grandfather born on the res.

But I don't believe perception is reality, Tom, even though I fully recognize that the mind/brain can't tell the difference between real or imagined experience.

And I don't believe the shit coming out of Aleppo either, the "news" as you say the US media refers to it. Call me a stubborn independent brain. Don’t buy most of the spouted shit.

And I’ll tell you this: Native Americans are doing themselves no favors with their pitter-patter. They’ve adopted Israeli-style victimhood. Not impressed.

MRW said...

But I do have sympathy for the Lakota.

MRW said...

BTW, did you know that the US Constitution was derived from founding documents of the Tyendinaga Mohawk? 12th C. They have the originals that it was taken from.

Matt Franko said...

Trump will get in there and get a deal with the Indians to go around it....

Ryan Harris said...

Energy transfer should just move it and ask the government to pay the cost since their regulatory process was flawed and now is being modified extralegally. If the gov arbitrarily ignored legitimate issues on water pollution concerns or made racist decisions to route the pipe through the reservation, the government made an error and is liable.

I suspect the engineering and science is fine though, this is more a case of government over reach. It's the Bundy case but on the left with a bunch of crazies. The important thing should be to avoid violence and deescalate the situation. Then when all the irrational people settle down proceed with a more civil process.

MRW said...


The Feds shouldn't have been caught with their pants down. The Army Corps of Engineers should have asked for a standard comprehensive environmental impact statement. They took shortcuts, and are backtracking now.

I mean, how fucking dumb can you be? It's near an Indian Reservation. What did they expect?

Tom Hickey said...

This is also about water protection as in Water Protectors.

This is getting to be a huge issue as the energy industry increases its threat to the water supply through both pollution and consumption — fracking uses a huge amount of water.

This is not an issue that just concerns Native Americans. They just happen to be the first people in the line of fire that have stood up and said no.

This issue is only going to expand.

MRW said...

But they weren't drilling there, Tom, were they? They were trying to run their pipeline underneath the lake/river. I think 70 feet below the bottom of the lake/river.

Fraking has been used since 1949 to close off wells. They put down a reinforced cement shell column, and fill it with water. But the new developments in slant drilling in the early 00s have allowed them into drill deeper, waaaay below the water table, and do the stuff they're doing now with the horizontal drilling deep in the crust that Ryan or someone else referenced. The Russians perfected drilling down in 42,000 ft while it was still the USSR--they capped that well and wouldn't say how they did it--a geological miracle at the time and part of their abiotic oil theory. It was in Siberia somewhere. It's a famous well. Begins with "K."

Polluting the water table means you have either incompetents or corner-cutters doing the encasing. I claim it is the latter. Their asses should go to jail. The Europeans would slam them behind bars. We let them get away with screaming free enterprise and individual property rights, and a bunch of other bullshit.

Jesus, I wish I could find that map of Europe's pipelines. Every major country in Europe gets their energy piped in. You would be shocked at the maze. Ever heard of one of them breaking, and destroying the environment? No. Only here.

Tom Hickey said...

Have you seen the pictures of people lighting the gas coming out of their faucets?

Plus, the connection between fracking and earthquakes is pretty well established.

Pipelines also leak.

These are considered externalities that are socialized. If liabilities are determined and damages awarded legally, it is regarded as just another costs of doing business.

The fatal flaw of capitalism is looking at market price and profitability instead of true cost inclusive of externality.

MRW said...

Have you seen the pictures of people lighting the gas coming out of their faucets?

Sure. Used to believe in it fervently a decade ago. But are you also aware that it was also a phenomenon common in the 1930s and 1940s on farms with natural wells (not municipally supplied water)? This occurs in states like Pennsylvania, Kansas, and Oklahoma. Natural gas occurring in the water supply naturally. From the deep. Are you aware of the federal government studies investigating these phenomena that discredited the subsequent Leo DeCaprio extraordinary claims. Solid but boring science.

Did you read this? Why Every Serious Environmentalist Should Favour Fracking by Dr Richard Muller and Dr Elizabeth Muller, Berkeley.
Richard A Muller has been Professor of Physics at the University of California, Berkeley since 1980. He is recognized as one of the world’s leading climate scientists and is the co-founder and scientific director of Berkeley Earth, a non-profit organization that re-analysed the historic temperature record and addressed key issues raised by climate sceptics. He is the author of "Physics for Future Presidents and Energy for Future Presidents" and six other books. He has founded two projects that led to Nobel Prizes and was named by Foreign Policy as one of its 2012 Top 100 Global Thinkers.

Of course, not reported in the press.

Plus, the connection between fracking and earthquakes is pretty well established.

No, it's not. That was disproven. There’s a connection between geothermal and earthquakes provided they are located along fault lines. The Germans first claimed it, then rescinded it. The latter not reported. [Don't have the time right now to search my library for the scientific papers that proved this wrong because a cursory search didn’t bring them up via properly cited titles.] F William Engdahl, a smart guy, claimed this, but Engdahl also pushes a balanced federal budget agenda, ‘jes sayin’.

Pipelines also leak.

Yeah, if they are using mid-20th C technology. What I've been trying to say here is that modern pipeline technology is light years away from that antediluvian tech. Pipelines today are double-walled with offset joints, sensors, and heaters to maintain adequate flow depending on the viscosity of the liquid. If the goddam company invests in the advances the way Europe now does.