Tuesday, December 22, 2015

GOP civil war continues apace

Now Levin (libertarian wing)  hitting Kristol (neo-con wing) over Trump (conservative wing):


Joe said...

Lost all respect for Kristol, Krauthammer, and many others. Shame because I used to like those guys. Theyre more interested in maintaining their influence and position within the republican party than securing the border and supporting the next nominee (Trump.)

Trump is truly bringing out the best (worst?) in people! Just as everyone was shocked at Obama's ascendancy in '08 and Trump's domination thus far, I think this could turn into landslide victory for Trump next Fall, just watch.

Matt Franko said...

Joe, Trump met with Adelson the other day (finally):


If he can do a "YUGE DEAL" with Adelson then I would think Kristol (neo-con ie Israel wing) would pipe down... dont know about Levin (Jewish yes but more the libertarian wing in reality) though.... I dont see a path for Trump (authority person) to ever appease the libertardians 100%....

Septeus7 said...

Quote from Matt: "I dont see a path for Trump (authority person) to ever appease the libertardians 100%...."

I think that is excellent. The Lolbertarian cult has to go away. They have run of the economy and the party for 50 years and have essentially destroyed the country. Economically speaking, outright Nazis are more intelligent than libertarians.

Ignacio said...

I find the current USA 'right' inside politics interesting when you compare them to a lot of Europe:

In Europe there is a massive fragmentation amongst the left spectrum, but traditionally conservatives are an homogeneous block to confront the left (which has a social majority). In USA the contrary appears to happen, there is internal fighting amongst the right, but the 'left' forms a more homogeneous block to confront the right. OFC the Overton window in USA has displaced to the right on economic issues, but to the left on social issues (which send the right in a frenzy as things get worse the harder they try). Therein the focus on identity politics and racial issues, where the 'left' spends a lot of their political capital while leaving economic issues alone to please their corporate overlords which exert total control over the economic system (so the in-fighting is between crony capitalism OR total economic chaos aka libertarianism to please the even more greedy and stupid corporate masters ala Koch or the techno-libertarians).

But in Europe while social issues have turned to the left, and stayed, a similar displacement in the hearts of the people in economic thinking has not happened, so while the establishment is firm in control there is a stronger reaction towards neoliberal policy, with the traditional left supporter feeling betrayed by the establishment parties. In this case the feel of conservatives to hold the masses tight and under control with dictatorial and unaccountable institutions like the EU and ECB makes for a common strong front of the conservatives under one banner.

But in both cases is backfiring both from the left and the right (with the raise of cryptofascists from the right, or inside challengers to the traditional social-democratic parties focused on identity politics and neoliberalism from the left).

Matt Franko said...


Interesting seems to be more diversity over there but on the left... current left here is Tammany Hall redux have to go back to pre-civil war for a parallel....

Kaivey said...

The libertarians make a big thing about personal freedom, but most are proto fascists. Libertarians don't get it, or rather, don't care, but if people are given pure freedom this gives them the freedom to enslave other people. No one impinged upon the freedom of the Royal families of medieval Europe. They did as they pleased, including throwing the peasants off their land, and raising taxes. Fail to comply, and the ruling class had the freedom to throw you into one of their dungeons, which had iron maidens and stretchers in.

Libertarians believe that by getting rid of the government this will give people their freedom - no more taxes. But the ruling class will get the money for their private armies by raising rents instead, including over-charging for the toll roads.

The ruling class always ruled through the government, and the Roman emperors and European kings always whacked the taxes right up. But when ordinary people started getting a say in how their country was run, the ruling class invented libertarianism instead to put an end to democracy.

Kaivey said...

Libertarians believe that getting rid of democratic government gets rid of the government. It doesn't, the ruling class will just form a non democratic government instead, i.e, fascism.

Kaivey said...

In the UK there was the Thatcher revolution and we were told that workers outdated themselves too much, and were needed to work longer hours to compete. Lots of working class Conservatives came out of the woodwork and were mini fascists.

Whenever I bought something I would make sure I got it for the cheapest price, and the Right were ramming this economic reality down people's throats. Like lots of people, I'm not an economist or an academic, and so this idea of 'market forces, made sense even if I didn't like it much.

Then some people on the left started saying that the Right had won the argument on economics but not on social issues. After that they started becoming neoliberals. The UK Guardian remained progressive on social issues, like gay rights, but became hawks on war.

But it turns out that the Right was wrong all along on economics, and market forces have destroyed wages and jobs knocking out demand.

How did the Right get away with it? They own the media and most people are more interest in sport or celebrity entertainment. I only know one person who is interested in politics.

Most people I know live harsh lives with long hours at work. The managers in my old company are slaves to the system, but none of them question why this is.