Tuesday, December 22, 2015

Kristol: If Trump Is Nominated, 'We'll Have to Start' a New Party


Good, take your neo-conservatives and the neo-confederates and the libertarians with you and form your own permanent loser party.




21 comments:

Malmo's Ghost said...

The Republican electorate is firmly for Trump or Cruz--in other words anti establishment Republicans. The neocon wing is purely a politician/Fox News talking head wing, not to be confused with Republican voters per se. If the neocons bolt from either Trump or Cruz then good riddance. Furthermore, the Republican electorate won't miss them one bit. Watch

Malmo's Ghost said...

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/01/the-great-republican-revolt/419118/

Tom Hickey said...

The coalition is cracking, or better, cracking up.

Matt Franko said...

It will be interesting to see what the nominal Christians in the "John Hagee Wing" do if the neo-cons bolt... they may go with them I wouldnt put it past them...

John said...

Why? Are Rubio or Cruz that less crazy? They're even crazier than Trump when it comes to war. Trump is a weird brew of borderline nativist and narcissist.

I liked Ron Paul's grand compromise: divert Pentagon spending to social security and medicare. That's the kind of conservatism almost everybody would vote for.

Matt Franko said...

Its Israel John...

To the GOP tribesmen (and we might get to see if this also applies to nominal Christians practicing Anglo-Israelism in the "John Hagee Wing"), if the nominee doesnt look at Israel as the 51st state then the GOP is not worth your membership... they have a lot of munnie to throw around too which usually does the trick but Trump is self-funding and this is making them more than nervous...

I think they are over-reacting Trump is not saying he would change US policy towards Israel...

Ignacio said...

He should, why is that pathetic nation allowed to dictate US policy.

Makes conspira y theorists appear right. The whole ME is cáncer... As is jewish sionism.

Matt Franko said...

Ignacio I wouldnt look at it as "dictating" there are HUGE numbers of Christians over here who stand shoulder to shoulder with Israel... they support the US-Israel policy big league...

Here is a video of one of the big nominal Christian leaders (Hagee) of an evangelical sect down in Texas that I think illustrates the zealousness of which I am talking about pretty well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zqrjj_dlIOk

And this was supportively produced by the CBN people who are Pat Robertson's group all the way over in Virginia Beach, VA ... so this view is nationwide over here...

So its in no way "dictating" by Israel...

And its not just the Protestants it extends into conservative members of the Catholic Church as well... then there are the mercenary "crusaders" led by the Blackwater guy, etc...

it would be interesting to see what all of these people would do if the Jewish GOPers did indeed bolt and form a new party....

Ignacio said...

the problem is that is not just the GOP, the administration and the democrats is infiltrated with neocons and hawks, many of them related to Israel and Zionism.

If there is an alignment between the current establishment interests and Israel policy and this is not due to influence from Israel then the population should add up 2 +2 and conclude that most of the backfire from Muslims towards USA during the last decades has been due to the meddling in foreign affairs when they should not have to. Instead we see an endless spin of propaganda to paint something as a threat that is not (not saying is not a problem, but in the long list of problems of USA or the West is way low).

When the Pentagon are the only grown up in the room and have to carry their own covert operations behind the executive and the CIA to offset their insanity you know there is something profoundly broken and stupid with the current set of policies, whether they are product of not of a conspiracy.

Matt Franko said...

Well there is the material issue with petroleum... iow we deal with the Muslim nations to buy their oil... then we send them food/medicines, etc... that logistical system needs to be secured hence the US military presence...

And idk if we should respect the Pentagon here they are also on board with over reliance on Special Operations vice conventional forces due to "we're out of money!" morons in charge there too...

Looks like Petreaus went over to CIA and doubled down on his trademark "counter insurgency" only since he was out of the military he used agent networks ... this left him out of his sandbox with the Pentagon and somebody dropped dime on his affair to get rid of him... but then it is right back to Special Operations only administered by the DoD vice CIA...

The whole thing looks f-ed up from the outside looking in due to a general over-reliance on Special Operations due to the view (BOTH in the Pentagon and CIA) that "we're out of money!" by those unqualified for leadership in both of those places and right on up thru Congress and the Whitehouse...

We should be using in your face diplomacy backed up by overwhelming conventional forces... this is GOPer T. Roosevelt's "speak softly and carry a big stick" approach....

imo the 20 year experiment with Special Forces/Special Operations has been a manifest failure... those tactics have their uses but they are not leading ones...

Ignacio said...

There was plenty of chances during decades to do things right in many of those countries supporting real moderates (not Al Qaeda "moderates", crazy..., those guys supposedly blow up WTC and now are our "allies"! insane), growing moderate secular movements and democracies in the regions and building up trade with them, grow up their industry and provide some sort of future for the post-oil era which one way or an other is coming. Instead there was regime change after regime change supporting either bloody despotic military regimes or religious nut cases (and more often than not both things combined).

Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc. all were pretty moderate by today standards a few decades. But the US, aligned with Israel insane Zionist policy, and destroyed the region under an strategy of "managed chaos" just to confront the USSR (and Israel). And we keep going and going... Until the whole region is not an uninhabitable desert poisoned by radiation and ghost cities and the whole thing is not like a post-apocalypse bad movie things won't stop.

Tom Hickey said...

The love affair with special ops and clandestine ops, as well has high tech like drones is that the US public is not into boots on the ground and US politicians realize that it's poison with voters.

Matt Franko said...

Well Tom the warriors with "boots on the ground" are getting short changed in Force Protection by the morons in charge so the casualty count goes high...

Look at the other day where 6 got blown up by a jihadi on a motorcycle in afgan... anyone ever hear of a reinforced concrete wall? Their chain of command think the cloth of their uniforms is all the protection we can afford because "we're out of money!"...

Matt Franko said...

"those guys supposedly blow up WTC and now are our "allies"! insane"

Welcome to the world of Special Operations... that is how that doctrine works...

MRW said...

Matt, might be interested in this bit of history explained by Colonel Pat Lang.
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2015/05/httpwwwreuterscomarticle20150518mideast-crisis-iraq-iduskbn0o20lt20150518.html?cid=6a00d8341c72e153ef01b8d1162ba3970c

MRW said...

PART 1

You're right about this, Ignacio: "Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc. all were pretty moderate by today standards a few decades." Add Pakistan, as well. Western clothing and cultural mores. Jackie Kennedy and her style as the female model.

Then Begin came to power in Israel. He was so furious with Carter for being strong-armed at Camp David that he and Yitzak Shamir cooked up a rebellion in US politics. This was in the last year or two of the 70s. Begin got in touch with Jerry Falwell and said, Hey, I know we don’t agree on a lot of liturgical things, but we do agree on the twin scourges in society of homosexuality and abortion (Roe vs Wade); there’s a bridge between our two faiths. Homos and abortion? Shit yeah. We’re on board. Falwell and his Christian Right buddies were perfectly happy up till then with blaming Jews for killing Christ, and never the twain shall meet. Begin and Shamir were also working behind the scenes dropping stories into The National Enquirer and the other grocery tabloids (eg: Weekly World), which the CIA took control of, undermining Carter before the election (they had the happy accident of the Ayatollah taking over Iran), and instructing the NYC Jewish faithful to back Reagan, creating the neoconservatives, and their name, in their wake like Irving Kristol, the ole’ commie Trotskyite who made a 180 politically. Ditto Norman Podhoretz.

MRW said...

PART 2

Since they were located in the Levant, Begin knew about the CIA grooming Khomeini in the south of France in low-tech urban guerrilla methods to pull off the coup; the CIA intended that a religious presumed bump-on-a-log would sit at the head of Iran, and the CIA/USA would control the oil, the new NUMBER ONE national security item since the 1973 oil embargo that threatened the US military globally. The US military had discovered during the embargo that their subs, ships, and planes had only a couple of days of fuel available. ARGGH! Ditto the supply lines. James Schlesinger (SecDef) made oil National Security Item #1. Still is. Kissinger had already implemented a ban on exporting US crude in 1975 when he promised the Saudis to keep the price of oil high—we have greater oil reserves than Saudi Arabia—if they would charge in USD and park their oil sales in US treasury securities, absolutely assuring the USD as reserve currency over the British Pound; another Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) that the US Treasury created a separate department to handle apart from Congress. Hell, I heard about this CIA plan in the summer of 1979—*during* the hostage situation in Tehran—at a State Department cocktail party in Morocco, but the US press didn’t know. They had been preoccupied with Watergate since 1973 and the upcoming election…all the journos wanted to be the new Bernstein & Woordward, can’t get in front of that ambition. Carter had got wind of all this, however, and fired 4,000 CIA operatives for going rogue. Bet you never heard about that.

Then Begin (and Shamir) implemented a brilliant plan to rouse the Christian Right voters and cement their loyalty. Begin (and Shamir) would only communicate with Falwell. Falwell would then call the new President, Reagan, to transmit what Begin wanted him to know, AND return the message. The White House noticed. Begin would not speak to Reagan directly; kept this up for three years. Falwell eventually had a red phone on his desk to answer calls from the White House. He had power! And he fucking loved it. That’s when the social values crapola started. Lee Atwater salivated at the number of southern Christian Right votes, and went along with the social values shit, whatever brought i the votes. And these people started to vote, where they hadn’t before.

Meantime, Israel created all the biblical crap and new biblical myths to rope in the Evangelical American flock. The Holocaust became the new religion (starting in earnest in 1979) with wild tales out of Mother Goose—lampshades out of human skin, etc, which they could do because talking about it was already outlawed in Europe—to sucker in the emotionally religious. They gave that fucking phony, Elie Wiesel, the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1986 for “Night,” when the guy was never at Auschwitz and made it all up: I worked for his family; I knew this nine years before Israel arranged for the Nobel. It wasn’t until 1991 when the real archives from Auschwitz were released after the fall of the USSR that some indication of what really happened there had documented proofs (17 million papers, the Germans documented when you took a shit). But all of that is now classified—and one copy in the Smithsonian—courtesy of the arch-Zionists who have skin in the game; the only info that got out was no human lampshades and the other outrageous stuff—the head of the Holocaust Museum, Yehuda Whatever, in Israel released it in 1991—and the 4 million dead at Auschwitz was reduced to a million (Jews, homos, Muslims, the Romas, etc).

MRW said...

PART 3

How do I know all this? Apart from bits and pieces parked in books that the NYT crowd would revile and sneer at, I was in on the inside by another happy accident. My mentor at the time was an elderly Jewish icon in Manhattan that Israelis made pilgrimages to. He gave them permission to talk freely in front of me, never thinking that I might be able to put the pieces together. In addition, my mentor had made reverse aliyah eight or nine years before after finding the Sabras (born Israelis) despicable from HIS point-of-view. His daily lunch partner in Israel, however, was David Ben Gurion, who *despised* Menachem Begin. Ben Gurion was, in my mentor’s words, was “obsessed” with Begin—*really* hated him—and was convinced that if Begin ever became prime minister, “it will be the death of Israel.” If I heard this once, I heard it 200 times. A record of all this is in my mentor’s papers—he shall remain nameless—at Columbia Univ. I know because I wrote them down as he dictated them to me because he asked me to.

And this is the tip of the iceberg of what I know. Not worth the agitá telling the rest.

Matt Franko said...

MRW I just cant buy a lot of that I just dont think TPTB are that smart... I cant get past this belief... I believe there is a pretty strong political coalition behind US support for Israel there but from inside Christendom I can report it is not because of "Israeli scheming" or other conspiracy theory type stuff...

And then outside the religious issues there is the practical/material matter of petroleum which TPTB look at as TINA to petroleum so we have to secure that logistical system and hence all of the western military activity in the Middle East... that's just going to be the way it is until TINA to petroleum goes away and I dont see that possible any time soon... the west needs the petroleum....

But if Kristol is serious about picking up his marbles and leaving if Trump gets the nom its going to be interesting to see how it shakes out within the current coalition... but Trump did recently meet with Adelson ... Trump should be able to make that deal and maybe all of this back biting goes away...

MRW said...

This happened a long time ago, Matt, over 35 years ago. I heard it from the horse's mouth, so to speak. I was at Columbia grad school and worked for this mentor every afternoon and evening after graduating for a couple of years. I wrote the conversations down contemporaneously. I don't think it's a matter of smarts. It's consequences that people like Atwater took advantage of. Wasn't it someone on here who talked about the layer cake of impetuses?

Frank Schaeffer, the son of Francis Schaeffer (if you know who he is) also tells a similar tale vis-à-vis the Begin-Falwell connection. Look 'em up. I'm not making it up. The oil stuff--the National Security Item #1-I heard from a private conversation with James Schlesinger in 1989. He *specifically* said nobody at that level gives a shit about commercial or residential consumption, or whether Americans freeze or die. Supplying the military is #1. And you're right about the petroleum. The west needs it. If this was so goddam dangerous--and after reading countless real scientific papers, the ones that don't get press--I have to ask: where were the multi-million dollar contests over the last two decades to get kids to invent an alternative? Where? I personally believe this is a money play to buy up all the little producers, lock up the resources globally which Schlesinger said was the goal of various wars. #4 in command at Royal Dutch Shell in the Netherlands told me directly: even if we never drill another well, even if we never develop another field, we have enough money to show a profit for the next 300 years. Direct quote. This was his answer to my question about why they weren't developing the inventions they bought and stuck on a shelf: the ones where water was running cars, for example.

You can believe it or not believe it.

Did you see this last November, a year ago? Never reported in the NYT or WaPo. Why? Should have been frontpage news; instead they could only get published in an electrical engineering journal.
Renewable energy 'simply WON'T WORK': Top Google engineers
Windmills, solar, tidal - all a 'false hope', say Stanford PhDs

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/11/21/renewable_energy_simply_wont_work_google_renewables_engineers/
Page 2 (not apparent)
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/11/21/renewable_energy_simply_wont_work_google_renewables_engineers/?page=2

QUOTE
Even if one were to electrify all of transport, industry, heating and so on, so much renewable generation and balancing/storage equipment would be needed to power it that astronomical new requirements for steel, concrete, copper, glass, carbon fibre, neodymium, shipping and haulage etc etc would appear. All these things are made using mammoth amounts of energy: far from achieving massive energy savings, which most plans for a renewables future rely on implicitly, we would wind up needing far more energy, which would mean even more vast renewables farms - and even more materials and energy to make and maintain them and so on. The scale of the building would be like nothing ever attempted by the human race.
END QUOTE

Agree with you about Kristol; hope he does and takes his short-sighted bagatelles with him.

Matt Franko said...

But this out just yesterday:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-12-23/brand-new-rwe-plant-is-latest-victim-of-merkel-s-energy-shift

Says they may not ever switch on a brand new billion E plant.... Ouch!

The Google people think we are "out of money!" here:

"In reality, well before any such stage was reached, energy would become horrifyingly expensive "

See.

So what... it is "expensive" like we "can't afford the money!"? This is the way these people think...

The idea isn't to "save money!" It's to get rid of the CO2...

Merkel is probably using effective fiscal policy as part of a transition as they have been in surplus and think "we can afford it!"...

We can have whatever kind of energy system we want to have subject to real constraints....