Tuesday, November 17, 2020

What don't they tell you about Xinjiang? by Janus Dongye Qimeng

This is a very detailed look at the history of the Uyghurs in Xinjiang. It was a continent of continuous war and the Uyghurs were subjugated many times over the centuries. The Uyghurs even fought against each other, with Buddhist Uyghurs against Islamic Uyghurs when they were going through a transition period. Throughput most of history the Uyghurs were mainly Buddhists. 

The Uyghurs are of different ethnic groups, Chinese /Mongolian, Turkish, and Persian, but they all share the same language and culture. The Persians Uyghurs are very light skinned. 

The Quim Dynasty eventually concuered Xinjiang and brought peace and stability. The CPC took over and carried on the tradition, says Janus Dongye Qimeng. 




Marian Ruccius said...

Bob Rae calls on UN to investigate evidence of genocide against China's Uighur minority


Peter Pan said...

Bob Rae using the G word; JT talking about a reset...
Time to clean the stables.

Tom Hickey said...

Canada is doing its best to get shut off from the Chinese market, like Australia?

Marian Ruccius said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Marian Ruccius said...

It is China which abused Canadians, not the other way around. Do you propose that we kowtow to the incredibly violent Chinese communist party? My view, as someone who has worked in China, is that the tales ill-doing by the Chinese government largely understate the abuses.

This is not a criticism of the Chinese generally, nor a blind statement regarding what the Chinese Government has done well -- I like Michael Hudson's and Randal Wray's insights on the effective use of the spending power by the Chinese government, for instance, and I could go on and on. However, that does not dispel the very great wrong that the Chinese government has done in many parts of its territory, and to vast portions of its population.

Bob Rae is not perfect, but he has, inter alia, defeated a federal Conservative Government, defeated an provincial Conservative government (casting the vote that led to its demise), negotiated peace deals in Sri Lanka, fought for the rights and well-being of Rohingas, negotiated vast natural resource deals on behalf of and beneficial to Ontario First Nations, been arrested defending the inherent right to self-government of the Teme-Augama Anishnabe, resolved the Temagami land claim as Premier on favourable terms for them, worked as a labour lawyer defending unions across Canada, established the conditions as opposition leader for the defeat of the ultra-right wing Harper government, fought for national unity playing a key role in the 2nd Quebec referendum and in the Charlottetown referendum, and that is but the tip of the iceberg. When Bob Rae stands before the United Nations and claims that the genocide against the Uyghurs is real, you can bet your house that it is.

China could resolve all the claims about its abuses were merely to extend the same liberties to journalists in Xinjiang that it does in Beijing, or better yet provide free access similar to the journalistic freedom which still obtains in the West. That it refuses to do so means that the charges are true.

Just because there are unnecessary tensions with China, it does not follow that all good people should avoid condemning Chinese Government abuses. We must instead recognize and highlight those abuses, just as we criticize Guantanamo, the abuse of Julian Assange, US imperialism, EU financial crime and inequalities, or Canadian mistreatment of Indigenous people.

S400 said...

“Bob Rae stands before the United Nations and claims that the genocide against the Uyghurs is real, you can bet your house that it is.”

Then it is up to him to prove it.

Peter Pan said...

Canada is doing its best to get shut off from the Chinese market, like Australia?

The Canadian government has taken over the construction of a pipeline across the Rockies, in order to ship bitumen sludge to Asian markets. They intend they ram this project through in spite of opposition in British Columbia and elsewhere.

Being cut off from those markets would be a win for Canada's environment.

Peter Pan said...

The residential schools system for native children is sometimes referred to as a genocide. I don't approve of using this sort of hyperbole. What the Han are doing to the Uyghurs is not comparable to what the Hutu did to the Tutsi.

Tom Hickey said...

IF Canada extradites the Chairman of Huawei's daughter to the US for prosecution, it's all over for Canada with China. All I am saying is that this is a choice Canada is now forced into making. So it is caught between the US and China, and the US is not going to pick up the slack.

Chana won't be in a position to force kowtowing for some decades, but to be sure it is coming if China's growth remains on track. I was just looking at an article saying that that China's economy is likely to double by 2035. That will also affect its military capability, of course.

The US is aware of this and is trying to figure out how to kill it before it can't, and it may already be too late.

Marian Ruccius said...

Peter Pan: my experiences in China tend to suggest that such an expansion is impossible just based on the physical/environmental limits to growth.

Marian Ruccius said...

Sorry, that last comment was intended for Tom Hickey.

Marian Ruccius said...

Peter Pan: I believe the the Uygur camps are actually far worse than the residential schools. of course, in some residential schools the death rates in the early 1900s ranged up to 20% to 30%, because of poor conditions and widespread tuberculosis. At a minimum, the residential school system was cultural genocide, and China's treatment goes something beyond that. So, factoring torture and disappearances along with the "re-education" camps, the Chinese Government's behaviour would sit mid-way between cultural genocide and Rwandan-type slaughter, IMO.

Tom Hickey said...

I look at the world in two way — first, idealistically and aspirationally, hoping for the best and decrying the worst, and secondly, realistically and practically, realizing that history and the human condition are the story of inhumanity and cruelty, especially in the pursuit self and group interest. So, hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Historical trends are not likely to change much in the foreseeable future.

When I was younger I put idealism before realism and practicality. Until Vietnam.

Tom Hickey said...

my experiences in China tend to suggest that such an expansion is impossible just based on the physical/environmental limits to growth.

Well, we are going to find out because the Chinese leadership is going for it.

Peter Pan said...

Tom, that extradition process has been going on for nearly two years. That may be a new record for slowest extradition ever. It's up to the Biden administration to decide what Canada is to do next.

Tom Hickey said...


China urges Canada to resolve Meng Wanzhou case immediately, properly

Marian Ruccius said...

Tom: honestly this is just typical Chinese propaganda -- several errors by Canada border services and possibly the RCMP have been brought to the fore by the thoroughness of the Canadian extradition process... So not exactly an attempt to hide these mistakes. And the extradition process has taken time largely because of Meng Wanzhou's privileged treatment, living almost without restriction in a multi-million dollar luxury house, assisted by some of the Canada's most respected lawyers, while two Canadians lie in miserable jails, largely incommunicado, on entirely politicized, trumped-up charges. The Canadian judicial system may well find that there is no case to extradite Wanzhou.

The Chinese Government and press -- the same thing of course -- cannot get it through their heads that the Canadian judicial system really is for the most part independent. That's all. Having gone this far to uphold its conception of the rule of law, the Canadian government will not switch courses, so Biden may indeed be the key to releasing Wanzhou, but Biden would have a hard time doing so politically, having jumped on the anti-Chinese racism bandwagon during the election.

Tom Hickey said...

Right, and Canada is going to join Australia in being shut out of the Chinese market.

And so it goes in great power geopolitics. It's not a matter of right and wrong in geopolitics. It's who's got the power.

Beneath the veneer of civilization, human males are predators and many human female either support or join them in this. Being predators, human males are also territorial. Human males are also pack animals that operate in groups based on kinship.

That's a quick summary of human history to date. I don't see any reason to expect anything different anytime soon.

Canada being a small country wrt population is dependent on its in-group, which is naturally the English-speaking countries that make up "five eyes." So it will have hope that others pick up the slack in exports when China cuts them off.

Tom Hickey said...

One needs to understand that the US strategy is to contain China (and Russia) by surrounding it military with allies and then strangle it economically. The attack on Huawei is a centerpiece in this strategy. China, of course, knows this, and will act accordingly to avoid the trap being set.

Huawei Threat "No.1 Concern For Democracy" Globally: National Security Advisor O'Brien

Xi voices opposition to interference in internal affairs, unilateral sanctions, "long-arm jurisdiction"

Beijing warns United States and ‘Five Eyes’ allies they risk having ‘eyes poked out’ for meddling in ruling on Hong Kong lawmakers

China now has the nuclear strength to hit back at a first strike, former PLA colonel says

Tom Hickey said...

China Calls Canadian Intel Report Alleging Cyber Threat From Beijing, Moscow ‘Absurd’

Tom Hickey said...

"China Is Angry. China Can Be The Enemy": Beijing Launches Extraordinary Attack On Australian Government

Marian Ruccius said...

Well,the five eyes is a horrible arrangement, and you may be right in your analysis, but I suspect that even if she is extradited it will be only a few months until Canada-China relations normalize. The truth is that China's demand for Canadian resources is likely to trump power politics: and we are not just talking here of minerals, wheat, lumber, and oil (where it is true Russia is gaining market share). We are also talking about agri-food and farming (including dry-land techniques), areas such as AI and machine learning, where some judge Canada to be the world's leader in research, albeit not at all in commercialization (effing typical). Canada may be less exposed than some think -- it has substantial capacity to switch away from Chinese manufactured goods, the low end of which are already moving to other countries. And as a direct competitor in manufacturing more complex products, a good portion of that can fairly easily be repatriated, back to where Canada was pre-NAFTA (not that the products will all be the same). A decade ago, Ontario was the North American jurisdiction producing the most cars, and recent GM investments look very promising. A great concern will be the extent to which the US might cause Canada difficulties, if it were to strive to onshore production again. China has been satisfying Canada's need to diversify, so we may sadly become even more dependent on the US, it is true. The City of London is trying to rebuild a Commonwealth type alliance with the support of conservative forces in Australia, New Zealand, and Canada - CANZUK! Not sure that's my cup of tea.

Tom Hickey said...

Here is the way I view the overarching factors in the global system.

1. De-colonialization, which challenges the capitalist model based on neoliberal and its supporting cast, neo-imperialism and neocolonization. It has a long run in front of it before the world evens out economically at a more or less equal standard of living.

2. The emerging economies are and will continue to be the growth leaders since real growth has peaked in the developed world and financialization has largely replaced it. And most of the real growth in production is military or military-related.

3. China is and will be the dominant force in the emerging world at least until India rises, and there are no signs of that — lack of organization whereas China is highly organized. There are other significant factors holding India back, too.

4. China is now claiming great power status. The period of Chinese humiliation is over. There will be payback, and it has already begun (HK). Canada and Australia are now caught up in this as US allies and are feeling the heat. The US is losing it over this. Its system is foundering.

5. Melding of Chinese and Russian technology and production capability, especially military, ending Western hegemony.

6. Ensuing great power conflict, but only hybrid warfare due to MAD. (Accident or an unintended chain of events are the big threat).

There will be several circumstances affecting this transition to a multipolar world in which China will likely be the dominant power by the end of the century, with China and India the largest economies.

1. Climate change — to which the following are related. We are already in the Great Reset and I don't mean the conspiracy theory. This transition will take decades.

2. Epidemics.

3. Water shortage.

4. Famine.

5. Mass migrations.

The historical dialectic will be driving by liberalism and traditionalism, subsets of which is individualism and communalism respectively. This will transform capitalism as it now exists.

Peter Pan said...

China is not a significant player in terms of Canadian exports. Shipping raw materials overseas is an economic giveaway.

Marian Ruccius said...

Peter Pan: agreed.

Tom Hickey said...

China remains Canada's second largest trading partner after the United States.

In the year to July 2020, Canadian exports to China increased 23.6 percent while imports rose 13.9 percent.


What a trade war with China would do to Canada 6/28/19

Marian Ruccius said...

Tom Hickey, that is true, no doubt about it. But as the article you posted notes: "Canadian goods to China comprise only 4 per cent of total exports."

It is of course on the import side that Canada could be hurt the worst (although as your MacLean's article notes, some Western Canadian industries could be particularly badly affected.)

The lower three quintiles of the Canadian income distribution could be affected by higher prices at Costco etc. But I am reminded about Frederick Lee's point that the construction of cheap consumption goods is for those with low incomes -- around the 47:25 mark. This is a policy choice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HncE6ApwgY&feature=emb_logo

Now, of course, a great deal of Chinese production sold to Canada is NOT cheap consumption goods -- and we would have to support domestic industries there, or source product from the US and other countries. So it really is Canada's potential increase in US dependency which is the most worrisome element, to me.

Tom Hickey said...

That, and I also look at it longer term. China is a rising power with a huge potential market and it seems strategically foolish to me to "humiliate" them when they are really, really sensitive to this and keep a list. For what? To kow-tow to the US? The US doesn't return favors. It's strictly business.