Tuesday, December 29, 2020

Zhagn Zhan disrupting police at their work when trying to protect civilians from Covid

As you can see many countries around the world won't allow people to endanger public safety. 


Peter Pan said...

The "rule of law" is supported by sheeple around the world.

Tom Hickey said...

Individual freedom and social responsibility need to be balanced.

A well-functioning government should guarantee as much individual liberty as possible consistent with security, order and welfare, which are the responsibilities of government — security being most important, good order second in importance and welfare third.

This is established in law and courts decide issues at the margin.

Kaivey said...

I've found it more about her She is an evangelical Christian who thinks that communism is the devil. The Chinese government banned people from leaving or entering Wuhan to contain the virus and stop it from spreading to the rest of China, but she entered illegally to deliberately cause trouble and to make videos for her YT channel. She had been arrested a number of times for causing disruption. At the time the authorities had no idea how contagious Covid was, so she was a serious danger to the public risking millions of lives.

Marian Ruccius said...

Anyone who has lived under Soviet, former Eastern bloc, or Chinese communism is likely to come up withe same view -- that communism as so formulated is indeed evil. This has as the markings of a Chinese psy-op, just Chinese propaganda designed to justify the punishment and vilification of a person who warned the world about the pandemic. So naive, Kaivey! "Arrested a number of times for causing disruption" is Chinese (and Vietnamese) code for speaking in contradiction to government narratives. This is just another example of the totalitarian abuse of the Chinese state. How is it that you can be so blinkered -- accepting that Assange's Swedish charges were just a set-up and a fundamental abuse of his civil rights, and not see that a similar abuse is happening here? Why is she not allowed to speak? Where are the journalists freely allowed to interview her, to gather her side of the story? They do not exist because the Chinese government is a tyrannical, genocidal, torturing devil, as she says. (It may be other things as well, such as a competent user of the spending power, but it is a fascist state, in the truest sense of the word.)

Tom Hickey said...

Not what I hear from some people that have lived in the US for a number of years after emigrating. They had a totally different picture of the US and were shocked about the reality.

Marian Ruccius said...

I am surprised to see such a bait and switch tactic from you, Tom. Just because the US underwhelms, or disappoints, both economically and in terms of basic rights and freedoms, it does not follow that the Chinese government is any less brutal! So, if you are Han Chinese, materialistic, mandarin-speaking, educated, urban and employed, you can shut your eyes to the very great abuses -- all designed to benefit you and solidify support for the Government among that group. If you are (inner) Mongolian, Hong Kong Cantonese (increasingly), Uighur, Tibetan, a believer (say a Falung Gong practitioner), or one of the many ethnic minorities (say those in Yunnan province) actively encouraged to acculturate (yes, despite relaxed birth laws for ethnic minorities), a journalist, or someone who just wants the right to loyal opposition, then you will have different view. The Chinese Government is one of the greatest tyrannies in history, and the rise of its soft power, through naive posts such as Kaivey's, is more threatening to justice and democracy even than the US's violent enforcement of its hegemony around the world. The lack of balance of your (and particularly Kaivey's) posts on China would put you in the same league as Walter Duranty, if it were not the case that neither of you (as I understand it) has actually been to China. I am not against pro-Chinese posts (nor dispute in any way the right and validity of posting them); what I oppose is a naive and one-sided approach conducted in an effort to "bring balance" to discussions on China. For that to occur, you lose all credibility if you do not at the same time acknowledge legitimate criticism of China. I think one could better take a page from Paul Robinson's book -- in Irrussianality posts he regularly debunks tawdry, Western anti-Russian propaganda, but he does so also with the caveat that there are many ills to the Russian regime. Kaivey's aim seems to be to counter every misdeed of the Chinese Government with a Chinese psy-opp piece designed to deflect attention, rather than to highlight Western hypocrisy. Really, it is a lazy and naive approach to international relations. For instance, US (and Canada, UK, and OAS) imperialist/neoliberal attacks on Venezuela do not justify the hagiography of Maduro, who is a genuine caudillo-type bastard. The same goes for the Chinese government.

Marian Ruccius said...

Just another day for Tibetans:

Tom Hickey said...


You made a blanket statement and I offered a contradictory response. That is what inquiry and debate is about.

As an addendum, the view I heard was that if the worst of both systems were eliminated and the best combined, then we'd be getting somewhere. Both sides need to own up to their shortcomings, correct their wrong views about others, and go forward in building a better world for all.

Marian Ruccius said...

i agree with your last sentence certainly.

Peter Pan said...

Individual freedom and social responsibility need to be balanced.

That was thrown out the window when local officials in western countries made their power grab. Individual freedoms were trashed on the basis of ridiculous death toll warnings. When the response to the pandemic was shown to be incompetent, they doubled down on the same failed policies. If this isn't a libertarian's worst nightmare, then what is?

China wasted a month trying to save face. They had no idea what they were dealing with, yet never communicated that to the outside world until late January. Then it was the western countries turn to sit on their hands for another two months.

No accountability demanded, only a misplaced trust in corrupt officials.

Greg said...

“Chinese government is one of the greatest tyrannies in history”

We are still trying to figure out the best way to organize the activity of billions of humans and there will not be one best way. The US has been in existence for about 250 years and they are not doing it the same today as they were at inception. China has been an entity for thousands of years and has tried even more ways than we have.

As far as percentage of their population that they have mistreated over the decades I can’t imagine China being that much worse than the US
on too many metrics. America wasn’t even a thing til the 18th century. China had been in existence for multiple millennia by then. They had a long head start on powerful people abusing common folk. China hasn’t tried to sell itself as THE beacon of freedom either. Mans inhumanity to man has a long history and it has manifested itself in different ways in different cultures. China is unique but they aren’t alone in
how they have managed to wield power often to the detriment of many of their citizens.

I agree with the last sentence of Toms statement as well. I would argue that China has already shown a willingness to mix their socialism with some capitalism. China is certainly “China first”, as they should be, but they aren’t “China only”

Peter Pan said...

Reduce the level of corruption over here, and we would reap benefits comparable to China.

Mao's dalliance with Marxist ideology was a humanitarian disaster.

We live under mixed economies. There is disagreement as to which blend of capitalism®©™ and socialism®©™ is best.