Friday, July 15, 2016

Alexander Mercouris — The Coup in Turkey: First Thoughts (UPDATED)


Looks like a Kemalist coup, as in Kemal Ataturk.

The Duran
The Coup in Turkey: First Thoughts
Alexander Mercouris

See also

Coup in Turkey? No Real Surprise…
Peter Lavelle

UPDATE:

Follow #Turkey for latest. Beware, lots of confusion and possible disinformation. 

12 comments:

Ignacio said...

There was full blown torture in the French terror attacks a few months ago: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-15/french-government-forced-admit-it-suppressed-news-gruesome-torture-bataclan-massacre

This shit better not make it to mainstream along the Turkey coup if it gets out of hand and starts a Syria-like situation.

We can start to discount a LePen victory if this shit gets out.

Tom Hickey said...

The radicals believe that can foment and win a civilizational war between Muslims and the West.

Ignacio said...

Interesting comment from NC:

From a friend in Ankara minutes ago, “Oh shit, this has all the hallmarks of a fight between two fractions within the state. It’s said that Fethullah Gulen and his supporters in the military tried this because of the imminent purge. There was a armed clash in Ankara between the military forces (Gulen movement) and tgr police/intelligence agency (Tayyip). It’s been going for a while, this feud. Now it seems like it’s grown a full blown war. Airports are also closed.

Now is a matter of who has the most support... worst case scenario it grows up into full blown out civil war ala Syria.

Tom Hickey said...

More signs of wheels coming off.

Matt Franko said...

" radicals believe that can foment and win a civilizational war between Muslims and the West"

Might be trying to test the west... last time it was Bush II who was p-whipped born-again-nut-job oil industry compromised... hence not the normal amount killed in the GWOT should have been several 10's of millions at least in response to 9/11... left is outraged at allegedly a few 100 thousands... it was no where near the normal amount ... this is going to be revisited...





Ignacio said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ignacio said...

The West is not (and hope it continues that way!) to be mentally prepared for the kind of warfare needed for a "military solution". You couldn't win Vietnam and you think you can win this, which would entail a couple of orders higher of magnitude of violence and brutality.

Majority of people just does not understand it, so let me put it in simple terms that even a kid can understand: this is a Carthago vs. Rome situation "you have to rape their women, slave their men, kill their children, and sow their fields with salt". The level of violence needed to end this up "militarily" would undo us as a civilisation too, would destroy and break us apart from the inside. It's not possible with the current mindset and government systems. No one can "win" this conflict militarily, current young generations will never ever do that shit for a system that is failing them either way, hope you are ready to pick the rifle.

The closest it came to there were the bloody Balkan wars and the ones massacring Muslims outraged the more democratic nations. It was a very bloody conflict but not even close to that what you are suggesting. You are not aware of what you are saying really.


Instead the solution is really simple (yet very complex): pacification and development remove most extremism over time, supporting secular forces instead of massacring them, not exporting intelligent agencies promoted terror oversees and satrap regimes. Playing whack-a-molle just makes things worse, something that should have been learned by now.

More and more violence each year that passes since 2001. Slow learners.

Jeff65 said...

Matt said:

"should have been several 10's of millions"

WTF?

Matt Franko said...

I'm not advocating it... I'm just saying that longer periods of peace typically follow wars in which the human tolls are much higher than what has happened in the GWOT so far...

Dont look at me I'm not running this moron fest and neither is anybody here... idk how you guys can have your knowledge and then simply choose a side in this moron fest..

Earth to MMTers: NOBODY listens to us or what we have to say....

Matt Franko said...

And it simply amazes me when you guys make statements claiming that the GWOT has taken a high human toll... what freaking planet are you guys living on ?

Tom Hickey said...

Earth to MMTers: NOBODY listens to us or what we have to say....

Yet.

But more and more people have at least heard about MMT, minimally through Stephanie's association with Bernie. But more people are also getting familiar with what MMT economists have to say, too.

Not a total loss. There's tangible progress and, I suspect, intangible progress. I know that the MMT economists are increasingly networked but they are not talking about it publicly.

Ignacio said...

Matt when there are lives on the line you have to take sides, personally I will always advocate the policy with less casualties and damage done, even if it's between both awful alternatives, and more so if I think one of the strategies is destined to fail but it won't be followed until the end. Is like Vietnam: what was the freaking point!? USA was winning militarily but because it failed politically it was lost in the end, all that violence was on absolutely nothing. Soviets had the same in Afghanistan, and the same is happening/has happened and will happen on MENA. The only real change and control has to happen from the inside, if it has to happen (and the West should stop undermining secularising forces every freaking decade in every country in the region).

I'm also being realistic, there is not appetite for the kind of policy suggested, and instead what is increasing is the appetite to hang on current leading elites from light poles at home and people being terrified by their own elites incompetency. This half-assed conflicts promoted by incompetent neocons just serve the pockets of military contractors and their stockholders which usually are seating on the top tier of the two-party system.

War needs soldiers and the hearts of the youth (most of it) are not in it for this sort of conflict, unless a big massacre happens in the West on unprecedented scale it won't happen. If this happen I think what you suggest would be the case and the West would respond brutally and indiscriminately, probably with a change in our government system towards the far-right like in the 30's first.

Under pseudo-democracies/oligarchies though, won't happen, people would have to be on the mood and elect tyrants to power first. We are really far away from that.