There are so many people out there who genuinely believe that financial plutocrats like Soros are communists, and that Wall Street-sponsored Hillary Clinton is a socialist.
Many American self-proclaimed right-wingers seriously assert that the German Nazis were all socialists, simply because “Nazi” is short for ”Nationalsozialismus”, which translates as “National Socialism”. Therefore, they make a conclusion that the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany were ideologically the same.
Sadly, this is the level of political and historical discourse many people are at at the moment.
German Fascism/Nazism and Soviet socialism were the polar opposites....Fort Russ
Op-ed: Were German Nazis and Soviet Socialists the Same?
Dennis Churilov
16 comments:
Bastardization of language from the right.
These terms are used in dog whistle politics. They're a substitute for thinking.
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The FRN article is in error.
“In Nazi Germany, regular workers were severely limited in their rights. As such, it was illegal to form unions and to protest for improving working conditions.”
FALSE
In Weimar Germany, labor unions had become corrupt, and they served the oligarchs, just as unions do today in Europe and the USA.
Because of this corruption, the Nazis subsumed all labor unions under a state union called the National Labor Front, which had a highly developed system of worker grievance reporting and alleviating.
Under the National Labor Front, workers advanced by merit, not by wealth or by social connections. The National Labor Front introduced unprecedented things like a 40-hour workweek, plus two weeks’ paid vacation, plus showers and cafeterias in factories so that workers could go home clean. The Nazis encouraged women to get college educations. Their “Strength Through Joy” program made middle-class leisure activities available to the masses. The Nazis offered affordable leisure activities such as concerts, plays, libraries, day trips, holidays, and world cruises. (Large cruise ships were built for this.) Massive resorts were built for Germans. (Some still exist today.) Nazi Germany had the largest tourist industry in the world. The Volkswagen ("People's Car") program was designed so that every German could get a car for 1,000 Reichsmarks or less.
The FRN article’s claim that German workers were mistreated is false. The Nazi party was the “National Socialist German Workers Party.”
There were indeed differences between the USSR and Nazi Germany. Nazi socialism was national socialism, whereas Soviet socialism was international.
The Nazis said their version of socialism was not meant for export. By contrast, the USSR led the “Comintern” (Communist International), which was all about export.
Thus, Stalin aspired to conquer the planet, whereas the Nazis focused only on improving Germany’s situation in central and Eastern Europe.
Contrary to popular myth, the Nazis did not want military war, whereas Stalin had planned to military invade all of Europe. (When the Nazis discovered this, they pre-emptively struck first.)
German National Socialism was suffused with German cultural traditions (“blood and soil”) and it tended to be race-oriented. By contrast, Soviet socialism regarded racism and nation-based cultural traditions as backward, obsolete, and in need of eradication.
Because the Nazis honored German traditions, the Nazis did not harm German churches (as long as churches did not interfere with politics), whereas the Soviets eradicated Russian churches.
The Nazis tried to create a kind of “workers’ paradise,” whereas Orwell’s Animal Farm was inspired by worker conditions in Stalin’s USSR. (Some pigs are more equal than others.”)
Incidentally the Nazis did "evil" things like outlawing cruelty to animals.
“Charles Ortel keeps calling Hilary and her democrats the left, which beats me.” ~ Kaivey
Neoliberals call themselves “leftists” in order to get away with enslaving and impoverishing the masses.
Anyone who calls Hillary and establishment Democrats “leftists” is a lying toady who intentionally serves neoliberals. Lies and toadyism are how you advance in today’s America.
“Then you have the term 'Cultural Marxism' which is nothing to do with Marxism but is about identity politics, a sub group of liberalism.” ~ Kaivey
“Cultural Marxism” began at the “Institute for Social Research” in Frankfurt, whose members (mostly Jews) sought to counter National Socialist ideas. After WW II these Jews dropped the economic aspects of Marx, and focused on promoting political correctness and identity politics, whose purpose is to keep the masses divided so they can be crushed by neoliberals.
Stupid right-wingers champion neoliberalism by regarding any variation from neoliberalism to be “Communism” or “Cultural Marxism.” That is, they stupidly equate calls for Universal Medicare (for example) with identity politics.
Leftist peasants are obsessed with advancing identity politics, while rightist peasants oppose them. Both sides are enslaved and impoverished by rich oligarchs.
“Hitler killed off the socialists in his party and went to war with communist Russia because he hated communism.” ~ Kaivey
Stalinist Russia had non-stop purges, whereas Nazi Germany had only one purge, which became known as “Operation Hummingbird” (a.k.a. “Night of the long knives”).
Ernst Röhm and other leaders of the Sturmabteilung (SA) broke from the Nazis, and sought supreme power via street violence and thuggish Brownshirt tactics. Some SA members were communist sympathizers. Röhm himself was a homosexual whose vision of socialism opposed Hitler’s vision. Therefore the SS disbanded the SA, but allowed them to continue wearing their uniforms during Nuremberg party rallies.
The Nazis regarded this purge as “regrettable but necessary.”
"Thus, Stalin aspired to conquer the planet, whereas the Nazis focused only on improving Germany’s situation in central and Eastern Europe. "
Pretty sure you e got that backwards.
The kerfuffle between Stalin and Trotsky was over proletarian internationalism. Trotsky for and Uncle Joe against. Stalin wanted to focus on developing the USSR industrially and militarily to meet the rising threat. See Socialism in One Country.
History proved him correct in his judgment. Had he not done this successfully to turn the tide against Germany, Germany might have been victorious in WWII and the world would look very different now.
Proletarian internationalism was revived after Stalin, but that the time that the USSR and Germany were in conflict, it was on the back burner.
Interestingly the precursors to the US neocons were disaffected Trotskyites that switched to a conservative version of liberal internationalism. See here.
ON the other hand, the Nazi goal was domination of greater Europe including Russia, and there is reason to think that Hitler's plan included eventually world domination. See New Order (Nazism)
"Pretty sure you got that backwards."
You have been programmed from birth.
“There is reason to think that Hitler's plan included eventually world domination.”
If this belief helps you sleep better at night, then so be it. I myself do not depend on this belief.
Hitler repeatedly made peace offers to the U.K. in an attempt to avoid a full-scale war. He defeated the British, French, and Polish forces who had invaded Norway, and then he allowed them to peacefully withdraw. Two weeks later he defeated the British forces that had invaded France, and he again allowed them to peacefully withdraw. (The so-called “miracle” at Dunkirk, etc.) Hitler wanted to show the U.K. that he was not their enemy, but the U.K. was counting on help from the USA on one side, and the USSR on the other. The U.K. started terror-bombing German civilians. This continued for a month until Hitler, under political pressure, was finally forced to retaliate. Even then, Hitler targeted only British military airfields. Eventually he started bombing munitions factories. (British bombers always went directly after civilians.) By 31 Oct 1940 Hitler ordered all his forces to cease attacking the U.K. so that Germany could prepare to deal with the USSR's imminent military invasion of all Europe (including the U.K.). The British declared "victory" and continue to bomb German civilians.
The idea that National Socialist Germany was “evil” and the Allies were “good” is a fairy tale.
Conjecture and Relations between Nazi Germany and the Arab world.
There's some truth in what Konrad says, but that's not the whole truth.
It's true that the Nazi regime applied many measures we currently associate to social democracy. Here's social democrat Sheri Berman making that case (27 March, 2017):
It wasn’t just hate. Fascism offered robust social welfare
https://aeon.co/ideas/fascism-was-a-right-wing-anti-capitalist-movement
Then again, those measures were not new. Conservative Bismarck had already made great advances more than 30 years earlier. He even coined the term Staatssozialismus (state socialism) to describe his policies. In Britain, too, Liberal governments had been establishing similar policies since the early 20th century.
What, then, makes the Nazi policies "socialistic" and not "social democratic", or "paleo-conservative", or "liberal"?
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Among the Nazis there were those who regarded Hitler as a paid stooge of the capitalist class: the brothers Otto and Gregor Strasser, for instance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Strasser
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregor_Strasser
Ernst Röhm, too, thought that the Nazis were too close to the aristocracy. He saw his Sturmabteilungen as a future revolutionary army against the German army, controlled by the largely Prussian aristocracy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_R%C3%B6hm
Those guys didn't fare well under "socialist" Hitler.
The capitalists, however, made a killing. Not only the "good" industrial capitalists, but also the "bad" ones, the "rentiers": German banksters. Indeed, Hitler was popular among capitalists in general: Henry Ford, for instance, was a fan (the love was reciprocated).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Ford#Labor_unions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Hunger_March
The first "guests" of Dachau were ... you guessed it ... Commies and trade unionists.
As Martin Niemöller wrote:
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
None of those things sound too "socialistic", to me.
The only capitalists who had something to fear from Hitler were ... again, you guessed it ... those German Jews who had lotsa money (a lot of which ended up in Hitler's and Goering's pockets, btw).
That precisely explains why Ludwig von Mises, himself a Jew with a ersatz aristocracy title presumably from a McHappy meal, could be a Fascist, without being a Nazi. He had no problem with the first two lines of Niemöller's prayer. What he didn't like was the third line.
That also explains why Mussolini had rich Jewish backers and lovers (Margherita Sarfatti) and there were even Jewish Fascists, just like there were proto-Israeli Fascists: Ze'ev Jabotinsky.
Lebensraum had been a goal of German foreign policy since at least the late 19th century. It was the time of imperialism. Every other major power had acquired an overseas empire. Even crappy Italy -- for Christ's sake! -- and Japan and the US. Only Germany was mostly left out of the party. While Americans moved mostly westwards, Germans wanted to move eastwards. That meant Poland (actually, Russian Empire) and beyond Belarus, Ukraine, the Baltic republics, Russia, the Caucasus.
Konrad guesses that Hitler wanted to preempt a Soviet attack. Maybe.
I'm sure Stalin could have said the same. The Bohemian Corporal (as Hindenburg, I think, used to call Hitler) made no secret about his designs for the East.
Me, I think Stalin had better reasons to fear. If the Allies had not declared war over Poland, chances are Hitler's next move would have been against the Soviet Union. The Soviets would have had little sympathy from the capitalistic Allies.
“Konrad guesses that Hitler wanted to preempt a Soviet attack. Maybe.”
I have discussed this several times before.
Russian historians like Viktor Suvorov, Mikhail Meltyukhov, Vladimir Nevezhin, Boris Sokolov, Valeri Danilov, Mark Solonin, and Joachim Hoffmann (German) have used materials from Soviet and German archives to prove unequivocally that Germany preemptively invaded the USSR (22 June 1941) because Stalin was days away from invading all of Europe.
Stalin had massed an invasion force on the USSR’s western borders that included three times as many aircraft as the Germans had, and nearly five times as many tanks.
I can give citations for further reading, but no one will bother to learn more, since the truth violates the programming that people cling to.
I saw some footage of Hitler making a speech once where he said that the British bombing of German cities was barbaric and he had refused to retaliate until now. After that the German audience stood up applauded. Hitler was outraged by the british 'barbarism'. I didn't know what to make of it, was it propaganda, I thought. All I knew was that the British was as evil as hell do anything was possible. Anyway, as there is so much propaganda i had to go to right wing sites to get the counter view of WW2. I didn't feel at all comfortable there and i was able to detect their bias.
Have your seen the film, Hellstorm, Konrad. It's shocking. I sent this to Paul Craig Roberts and he wrote about it I one of his posts.
Hellstorm
https://vimeo.com/225993078
FOR KAIVEY:
Yes I have seen that video, and I read the book.
In addition to Vimeo, “Hell storm” has not (yet) been purged from YouTube at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck-TEamhLBk
When I mention WW II, my real concern is people’s beliefs in general. Most people never ask themselves why they believe what they believe. Most people live according to fairy tales that make them feel righteous and superior. Most people’s beliefs are rationalizations for their own bad behavior. For example, the “holocaust”™ myth is a get-out-of-jail-free card for everyone, not only for Jews. Compared to the Nazis with their mythical “holocaust,”™ I am saintly no matter how many atrocities I commit.
This kind of mindless, self-righteous arrogance causes many of our social problems.
On a different note, yes I read Paul Craig Roberts’ reactions to “Hellstorm.”
Some excerpts…
“Wartime propaganda is not concerned with truth, but with depicting the enemy in the worst possible terms. The victors write the histories, and victor populations don’t want to read that their side’s behavior was no different, and possibly worse, than the vanquished people’s behavior. Obviously, this puts limits on what historians can write if they want readers and university careers.”
“What the Americans, British, and Soviets did to Germans during the war and, worse, after the war, dwarfs in its inhumanity everything the Nazis did. More Germans died during the two years after the war than died during the war. Mass exterminations of Germans and the systematic rape of German females as young as eight continued during the Nuremberg trials. What happened to Germans fit the program for the genocide of Germany advocated by the Jewish US Secretary of the Treasury Henry Morganthau. Nazi Germany is the most demonized entity in modern history, and the demonization continues today.”
Why do we believe what we believe? Do our beliefs make us more compassionate toward others, or less compassionate? Most people’s beliefs “justify” their lack of compassion.
Paul Craig Roberts continues...
“In my lifetime I have watched truth diminish. Most scientists serve the government’s military programs, and cannot expose government lies without ending their careers. Economists serve Wall Street, the big banks, and the global corporations. Psychologists and anthropologists help Washington subdue its victim populations. Journalism serves the government’s lies. Medical doctors prescribe in obedience to the pharmaceutical companies. Wherever you look, you see professionalism serving a material interest.”
“As the Romans did to Carthage, Germany might not exist today had Washington not decided to rebuild Germany as a forward base for the Cold War against the Soviet Union.”
The Romans invented their own “holocaust”™ myth by falsely claiming that Carthaginians routinely threw their children into bonfires as offerings to Satan. The Carthaginians were cannibals, sodomites, demon worshipers, etc etc etc -- all the usual nonsense.
Many people still believe this nonsense today, 2,200 years later. Why? Because Carthage lost the war.
Most people aren't historians. They believe what they're told over and over again.
Learning history in high school was all about memorizing facts. Then I learn that the "facts" are wrong. If that is the situation, why bother? I'll wait for the scholars get their act together. Then, and only then, will I consider reading "definitive" history.
They believe what they're told over and over again.
Learning history in high school was all about memorizing facts. Then I learn that the "facts" are wrong. If that is the situation, why bother? I'll wait for the scholars get their act together. Then, and only then, will I consider reading "definitive" history.
The point of postmodernism is that everything is story and that there are competing stories, and that all stories are narrated in terms of a particular point of view that colors the story.
In other words, it's all BS.
It comes down to who tells the best story, that is, the "facts" are decided by who is the best bullshitter.
“It comes down to who tells the best story. That is, the ‘facts’ are decided by who is the best bullshitter.” ~ Tom Hickey
For bullshit to become “fact,” the bullshit must be enforced by whoever rules society.
For example, fifteen nations in Europe (plus Russia) will imprison you if you question the “six million” bullshit.
Greece, Australia, Switzerland, and the Netherlands will also imprison you, but they do it indirectly, via laws against “hate speech.”
The UK, USA, and Canada will not imprison you for questioning the “six million” bullshit, but your employer will probably terminate you. And most social media web sites will ban you.
All human cultures (no exceptions) are saturated with bullshit that is enforced by taboos and by police operatives.
Some cultures are more saturated with bullshit than are other cultures, but no culture is totally bullshit-free. In some Muslim countries you will be imprisoned or beheaded for questioning Islamic bullshit. In Palestine you can be imprisoned for being a Palestinian, since your sheer existence is a "threat" to Israeli bullshit.
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